Black sooty glass and lazy flame P68a

[jonw440]

This is out 2nd P series stove. The first was a 2004 P61a. We updated to the P68a in 2014.
We have never had the soot problem until this season. The only to things we changed is the door gaskets and the auger motor.

Before first burn of this season, we removed the stove outside. I cleaned the vent pipe,chimney thimble (were stove pipe passes through wall into out mason chimney). Cleaned the stove completely,esp probe,pellet fines sawdust door!! We also installed a new auger motor and replaced BOTH door gaskets with 3/8 rope.
The problem we have is excessive black soot.
Both doors are very tight I am wondering if I need to turn the air flow voltage screw a little bit.
I dont have the required test equipment but am wondering if I can just turn the adjusting screw clockwise until the stove runs without the lazy flames and black soot.

 

[Whitenuckler]

This is out 2nd P series stove. The first was a 2004 P61a. We updated to the P68a in 2014.
We have never had the soot problem until this season. The only to things we changed is the door gaskets and the auger motor.

Before first burn of this season, we removed the stove outside. I cleaned the vent pipe,chimney thimble (were stove pipe passes through wall into out mason chimney). Cleaned the stove completely,esp probe,pellet fines sawdust door!! We also installed a new auger motor and replaced BOTH door gaskets with 3/8 rope.
The problem we have is excessive black soot.
Both doors are very tight I am wondering if I need to turn the air flow voltage screw a little bit.
I dont have the required test equipment but am wondering if I can just turn the adjusting screw clockwise until the stove runs without the lazy flames and black soot.

The tighter the better for both door seals...it could be that they are not tight? That was the only major change. You can measure the vacuum with a clear hose, or you can turn the adjustment pot up and watch the flame. If you have outside air check it all and the flapper valve regardless

 

[ARC]

Recheck the fines dust door

 

[jonw440]

I cleaned the exhaust probe and cleaned out the fines compartment. I am not 100 % sure the fines door was properly installed after the first cleaning, it is now though. I am checking a few more things before I try it again. I will leave the air flow adjustment as it is and has been to see if the fines door was the problem. If that didn't fix the lazy burn then I will adjust it.
We have only burned two bags of New England hardwood pellets so far and the black sooty almost oily residue in the stove was insane!
We have always burned this brand of pellets in the past and never had any issues.
Will check back.

 

[jonw440]

Update:
There was still a bunch of black soot on the glass after an hour. I called our dealer and they recommended cleaning out the "air wash tube". You have to remove the three screws that hold the "flapper intake" and vacuum out the tube that runs from the flapper intake to the air wash for the glass. (If you look inside of the stove on a P-series 61 or 68 at least its the tube running on the left side between the burn pot and the front of the stove.)
Just a thought it collects dust and dog hair....... We have owned German shepherds since 2009.
As for the lazy flame, I think its better after re installing the fines door.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Update:
There was still a bunch of black soot on the glass after an hour. I called our dealer and they recommended cleaning out the "air wash tube". You have to remove the three screws that hold the "flapper intake" and vacuum out the tube that runs from the flapper intake to the air wash for the glass. (If you look inside of the stove on a P-series 61 or 68 at least its the tube running on the left side between the burn pot and the front of the stove.)
Just a thought it collects dust and dog hair....... We have owned German shepherds since 2009.
As for the lazy flame, I think its better after re installing the fines door.

Thanks for the update. To be honest, that it the first I've heard of this air wash tube. I am pretty new to these stoves, but I had read many posts ect. I try to vacuum a bit where the door bottom sits, but that's it. I have not been in back where my OAK inch hooks up.Hopefully sucking in the front slots helps. I have no pets and it's all VP flooring down there so I just have your standard dust. With my OAK also I don't suck the combustion air from inside, it's all fresh air from outside.
re lazy flame - yes that is a sign of not enough air - the flame should be quite active

 

[mtnbiker727]

Did you use the dollar bill test on the door?

 

[Washed-Up]

When I’ve cleaned my air wash tube, I’ve used frog tape and taped it all except an area about the size of the shop vac slotted nozzle and that worked. Another thing to check with a lazy flame is how clean and free your combustion motor is turning, it doesn’t take much crud build up to slow them down, check the impeller blade in the fire box to make sure it spins freely

 

[bogieb]

Another thing to check is the hopper lid. Lift it up, check to make sure no small pieces are in there, then close it tightly. Although when that happened to me, it just left a heavy brown across the top 1/2 of the glass (pet sitter forgot to push the lid until it latched - looked closed, but wasn't).

 

[jonw440]

Cleaning the airwash tube did the trick. Nice clean glass and perfect flames! It is amazing what we pulled out from the intake/glass air wash tube!!

 

[Whitenuckler]

Cleaning the airwash tube did the trick. Nice clean glass and perfect flames! It is amazing what we pulled out from the intake/glass air wash tube!!

I am wondering if the design is different on my newish P43 - I don't remember anyone talking about an airwash tube. And don't remember anything mentioned in my manual?? I'm glad you figured it out. That is going to help other owners that probably didn't know.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Cleaning the airwash tube did the trick. Nice clean glass and perfect flames! It is amazing what we pulled out from the intake/glass air wash tube!!

Do you have OAK on that stove (outside air kit?) Do you have pets? I have OAK, so it should be sucking fresh clean air into that door air supply...Some ash may get into it but be sucked back out.

 

[jonw440]

No OAK and two German Shepherds. Nuff said.

 

[bogieb]

I am wondering if the design is different on my newish P43 - I don't remember anyone talking about an airwash tube. And don't remember anything mentioned in my manual?? I'm glad you figured it out. That is going to help other owners that probably didn't know.

There is no mention of the airwash tube, even in the parts list, much less the cleaning instructions. But it is there.

 

[mtnbiker727]

So I'm having this problem now in our new house. I installed the OAK, which I thought would be great, but something isn't right. I've never had soot form as quickly as I do now.

It's been running 24/7 for weeks now, which I never did in our current house, so that doesn't help.

After reading this thread, I checked the fines door, but I didn't take it off and reattach, so maybe I'll do that this weekend... Also since we're not moved in yet I have my parents filling it up on the days we're not there, and I don't know if they were getting the hopper door shut tight (they are now).

I haven't had an opportunity to do the dollar bill test, although I did look at the gasket pretty thoroughly last time I was up...

So based on this thread, I need to try to clean the air wash tube and the fan in the ash box.

My other thought is pulling out the ESP and wiping that off.

 

[Whitenuckler]

So I'm having this problem now in our new house. I installed the OAK, which I thought would be great, but something isn't right. I've never had soot form as quickly as I do now.

It's been running 24/7 for weeks now, which I never did in our current house, so that doesn't help.

After reading this thread, I checked the fines door, but I didn't take it off and reattach, so maybe I'll do that this weekend... Also since we're not moved in yet I have my parents filling it up on the days we're not there, and I don't know if they were getting the hopper door shut tight (they are now).

I haven't had an opportunity to do the dollar bill test, although I did look at the gasket pretty thoroughly last time I was up...

So based on this thread, I need to try to clean the air wash tube and the fan in the ash box.

My other thought is pulling out the ESP and wiping that off.

You could also double check how much vacuum you have - if you don't have a real meter, I just used some clear hose. Also, if you have the stove running, and want to check for leaks you can hold a smoky item near all the possible leak locations and see if it sucks the smoke in.
Check your flame. How it looks is a good indication of well it is burning.

 

[mtnbiker727]

You could also double check how much vacuum you have - if you don't have a real meter, I just used some clear hose. Also, if you have the stove running, and want to check for leaks you can hold a smoky item near all the possible leak locations and see if it sucks the smoke in.
Check your flame. How it looks is a good indication of well it is burning.

The flame looks great when it's in startup mode. But it idles a lot, which I think is a big factor here.

I cleaned the stove and checked the fines door and the door gasket. I couldn't find anything wrong. I decided to run it for a few days in Auto igniter mode, so that the stove would burn hotter. I think that's the ticket. The constant slow burn in disabled is a big part of the problem. We aren't living there, so I have it set around 62 degrees, so I don't think it does much besides idle.

 

[Whitenuckler]

The flame looks great when it's in startup mode. But it idles a lot, which I think is a big factor here.

I cleaned the stove and checked the fines door and the door gasket. I couldn't find anything wrong. I decided to run it for a few days in Auto igniter mode, so that the stove would burn hotter. I think that's the ticket. The constant slow burn in disabled is a big part of the problem. We aren't living there, so I have it set around 62 degrees, so I don't think it does much besides idle.

Yes, it could be. Set at 62F, and Igniter off, it would idle at it's lowest setting possibly for many hours. Usually what would happen if you were there, the room would get too hot, and you would shut it off, but this time of year it could just idle. The igniters can last for many years but you do need to vacuum and bang the igniter box once and awhile or it will get covered in ash and fail to ignite.

 

[bogieb]

Yes, it could be. Set at 62F, and Igniter off, it would idle at it's lowest setting possibly for many hours. Usually what would happen if you were there, the room would get too hot, and you would shut it off, but this time of year it could just idle. The igniters can last for many years but you do need to vacuum and bang the igniter box once and awhile or it will get covered in ash and fail to ignite.

I find the P43 gets ash in the igniter area much worse/faster than my P61a. Not sure why, but it could be because the firepot is shaped differently between the two. But, for either model, you are correct, if you leave it long enough without cleaning it will cause an issue.

 

[Whitenuckler]

I find the P43 gets ash in the igniter area much worse/faster than my P61a. Not sure why, but it could be because the firepot is shaped differently between the two. But, for either model, you are correct, if you leave it long enough without cleaning it will cause an issue.

I don't know how long I can go with my P43. I cleaned it this fall for sure, and about a week ago it failed to start and made a pile of half charred pellets. I may have forgotten to bang the burn pot too. I am now trying to get in the habit of cleaning out the ashes/scraping and then banging. Then taking my vacuum and with my little nozzle (tip cut on an angle) cleaning/sucking all those holes. I'm not sure if I am actually sucking dust out of there, but I am cleaning the holes. It is something I can do everyday without taking the cover off. When I start my stove I am now getting into the habit of setting my watch timer for 10 minutes to go back and look. Right around that time it should have started if its clean.

 

[bogieb]

I don't know how long I can go with my P43. I cleaned it this fall for sure, and about a week ago it failed to start and made a pile of half charred pellets. I may have forgotten to bang the burn pot too. I am now trying to get in the habit of cleaning out the ashes/scraping and then banging. Then taking my vacuum and with my little nozzle (tip cut on an angle) cleaning/sucking all those holes. I'm not sure if I am actually sucking dust out of there, but I am cleaning the holes. It is something I can do everyday without taking the cover off. When I start my stove I am now getting into the habit of setting my watch timer for 10 minutes to go back and look. Right around that time it should have started if its clean.

I just take the cover off and sweep ash out with my fingers once a week on the P43. For the P61a, I do that whenever I d a cleaning. But, whatever works for you, works.

 

[Whitenuckler]

I just take the cover off and sweep ash out with my fingers once a week on the P43. For the P61a, I do that whenever I d a cleaning. But, whatever works for you, works.

My little nozzle I made actually goes into the slot to vacuum it out after a little banging. I recently cut the tip on an angle so that it would be more airtight on the burn pot top slope. Also great for the fines box.
Not sure if I am actually sucking the dust out, but for sure every time I scrape the burn pot and pull the ashes over the edge those holes get some ash in them. I think that is the only time ash should get in there, as the air is coming out of there when the C blower is on.
I will report back in a month. If it keeps lighting that long it might work. My shopvac is right behind the stove in the old furnace room so it only takes me 30 seconds. I suppose I will need to do a full clean in a month also. Winter is arriving. Southern Ontario has snow squals and looks like another big snow year back there.