Blaze king or Kuma

[johns123]

Currently have a 6 year old blaze King (king) my setup is not the best, located in basement, 1100 sq. feet, one 45 degree to exit basement 90 degree once outside, double wall pipe outside, major problem is the king is 8 inch and I've reduced the pipe to 6 inch at exit and continues with 6 an additional 20 feet. I'm looking to get another stove with 6 inch flue and remove my King, thinking this reduction is causing most my problems like, having to leave the door cracked open a long time before reload, catalist doesn't stay active very long unless I use a very high setting, then I go through wood fast. 1. Blaze King dealer said my downstairs is too small for the stove and the thermostat basically shuts the stove down, therefore I'd be better off with the Princess.
One thing I forgot to mention, downstairs is 1100 square ft, however I have a thermostat controlled fan in the basement to shoot the heat upstairs at 1700 sq ft.
Is number one correct? So my thought was should I get a stove that isn't thermostat controlled (blaze king)
or should I get a stove such as the Kuma so I can control the heat output myself?
Sorry for being so long winded.

 

[Highbeam]

The king isn't the problem, the thermostat isn't the problem. Using a 6" chimney on the 8" king is one of your problems. Your home is not too small for the king, it's low setting is only slightly higher output than the princess.

The good kuma requires 8" chimney too iirc.

 

[johns123]

The king isn't the problem, the thermostat isn't the problem. Using a 6" chimney on the 8" king is one of your problems. Your home is not too small for the king, it's low setting is only slightly higher output than the princess.

The good kuma requires 8" chimney too iirc.

I agree however with state tax credit it would cost less to buy another stove than to replace the pipe. In your opinion in my situation would you purchase a non cat? With non cat perhaps I might have more control?

 

[bholler]

I agree however with state tax credit it would cost less to buy another stove than to replace the pipe. In your opinion in my situation would you purchase a non cat? With non cat perhaps I might have more control?

you should purchase a stove with a 6" collar. And one that meets your heating needs. First off is your basement insulated? If not that needs to be done or you will never be happy with the results heating from the basement. Next do you have any idea what your heat loss is? Cat stoves especially blaze kings are great at long low burns. So if you heating needs are not that high they are absolutely the right answer but if you need allot of btus to heat your place non cats will work just fine for less money.

By more control with a non cat what do you mean? Generally cat stoves will give you more control over the heat output because you can turn them down lower. It is all in how much control you need for your house we need allot more info to give you good advice.

 

[Highbeam]

I agree however with state tax credit it would cost less to buy another stove than to replace the pipe. In your opinion in my situation would you purchase a non cat? With non cat perhaps I might have more control?

The state tax credit wipes even when replacing a current epa stove that makes less than 2 gph emissions?

@bholler is spot on. The 6" flue is illegal on the king. You've got 2800 sf above this stove so you are asking a lot of any stove. Are you able to get the basement up to 80?

 

[jetsam]

Currently have a 6 year old blaze King (king) my setup is not the best, located in basement, 1100 sq. feet, one 45 degree to exit basement 90 degree once outside, double wall pipe outside, major problem is the king is 8 inch and I've reduced the pipe to 6 inch at exit and continues with 6 an additional 20 feet.

You need to move the stove, have major flue surgery, or get a stove with a 6" flue. That is not a setup that is likely to work.

1. Blaze King dealer said my downstairs is too small for the stove and the thermostat basically shuts the stove down, therefore I'd be better off with the Princess.

That's got some alternate facts in it. The thermostat on any BK does not have an external probe to see what room temperature is, and it doesn't care if your basement is 50 degrees or 150 degrees. He IS accidentally right about you being better off with a princess.... because it has a 6" flue, not because of your basement size.

If that's really what he said, quit taking advice from him.

So my thought was should I get a stove that isn't thermostat controlled (blaze king)
or should I get a stove such as the Kuma so I can control the heat output myself?

If you want as much control as possible over your heat output, you want a Blaze King. It boggles my mind that your BK dealer informed you that a stove where the air stays at one fixed setting throughout a burn cycle gives you more control than one with a thermostat that keeps the firebox at temperature.

If I was you, I'd look at moving the King upstairs into the area you actually want heated, and putting a proper 8" insulated flue on it. Might even be easier to just forget the old flue and do a new roof penetration.

If that was a no go, I'd get rid of the King and put a Princess upstairs on the old 6" flue- but that would make me very sad because the King is a sexy beast.

If you really have to leave the stove in the basement, you could make sure the basement is well insulated and swap it for a 6" flue stove.

 

[BKVP]

You need to move the stove, have major flue surgery, or get a stove with a 6" flue. That is not a setup that is likely to work.



That's got some alternate facts in it. The thermostat on any BK does not have an external probe to see what room temperature is, and it doesn't care if your basement is 50 degrees or 150 degrees. He IS accidentally right about you being better off with a princess.... because it has a 6" flue, not because of your basement size.

If that's really what he said, quit taking advice from him.



If you want as much control as possible over your heat output, you want a Blaze King. It boggles my mind that your BK dealer informed you that a stove where the air stays at one fixed setting throughout a burn cycle gives you more control than one with a thermostat that keeps the firebox at temperature.

If I was you, I'd look at moving the King upstairs into the area you actually want heated, and putting a proper 8" insulated flue on it. Might even be easier to just forget the old flue and do a new roof penetration.

If that was a no go, I'd get rid of the King and put a Princess upstairs on the old 6" flue- but that would make me very sad because the King is a sexy beast.

If you really have to leave the stove in the basement, you could make sure the basement is well insulated and swap it for a 6" flue stove.

Unless the stove is installed up against a non combustible wall. If it is, the heat could bounce back, reflect, and "fool" the thermostat into thinking the room is already warm. We recommend the 6" clearances at the rear to avoid this potential scenario.

 

[jetsam]

Unless the stove is installed up against a non combustible wall. If it is, the heat could bounce back, reflect, and "fool" the thermostat into thinking the room is already warm. We recommend the 6" clearances at the rear to avoid this potential scenario.

That's really interesting. To what extent can room temperature actually affect the amount of air that the thermostat calls for (assuming that the room is, say, 100° or lower, and the stove isn't getting a ton of reflected heat due to clearance issues)?

From operating my BK, I would have said that the answer was somewhere between zero and very little, but I would appreciate the correction if that's wrong.

Edit: It occurs to me that the above might actually be a complex question, because the thermostat is not calling for some amount of air between closed-flapper and open-flapper; it is dealing with a preset minimum and maximum from the user's knob setting and calling for some amount of air between those two points- so for example someone with poor fuel would see less room temperature influence because his thermostat is always calling for its allowable maximum air far more often than it would with good fuel... and there's draft... and operations...

...and Occam's Chainsaw hits another piece of galvanized pipe in the tree.

 

[BKVP]

That's really interesting. To what extent can room temperature actually affect the amount of air that the thermostat calls for (assuming that the room is, say, 100° or lower, and the stove isn't getting a ton of reflected heat due to clearance issues)?

From operating my BK, I would have said that the answer was somewhere between zero and very little, but I would appreciate the correction if that's wrong.

Edit: It occurs to me that the above might actually be a complex question, because the thermostat is not calling for some amount of air between closed-flapper and open-flapper; it is dealing with a preset minimum and maximum from the user's knob setting and calling for some amount of air between those two points- so for example someone with poor fuel would see less room temperature influence because his thermostat is always calling for its allowable maximum air far more often than it would with good fuel... and there's draft... and operations...

...and Occam's Chainsaw hits another piece of galvanized pipe in the tree.

We have had a few installs over the years where the wall behind the unit was 100% non combustible and with clearances set to combustible surfaces, the installer placed the stove up against the wall. A the wall warmed, it radiated heat back towards the thermostat. On high burn rates, after a period of time, the spring inside the thermostat sensed the heat and began closing off the air. Again, limited instances of this occurrence but definitely has happened a few times over my 18 years. Once the stove was moved away from the wall, the consumers reported the stove perfomed just fine.

This is also why the thermostat on our inserts are located forward of the front of the fireplace.

 

[weatherguy]

Is this thread giving anyone else that Deja vu feeling?

 

[jetsam]

Is this thread giving anyone else that Deja vu feeling?

There's no big ducted hood and fan in this one!

Wonder if it's the same dealer selling all the 6" basement Kings.

 

[begreen]

There's no big ducted hood and fan in this one!

almost

One thing I forgot to mention, downstairs is 1100 square ft, however I have a thermostat controlled fan in the basement to shoot the heat upstairs at 1700 sq ft.

 

[jetsam]

almost

Ooh, you have me there. Now to wait for the dreaded third thread in the 'Basement King On A 6" Flue And Used As A Furnace' trifecta.

I call... let's see... an 8" flue that is reduced to 6" to make it easier to connect to a battery of 'Magic Heat' devices - and then to 4" so it can share a flue with an electric dryer - in the next thread!

 

[kennyp2339]

however I have a thermostat controlled fan in the basement to shoot the heat upstairs at 1700 sq ft.

It's always easier and more efficient to move colder dense air towards the stove vs warmer less dense air.