BlazeKing King vs ???

[adrianrog]

I started another thread about lining my chimney for an old stove that came with the house and one or two people recommended replacing the stove while I was at it. I have a 2800 square foot ranch with a 2800 square foot basement in GA where the winters are mostly mild. The floors aren't insulated and I'd like to use the stove in the basement to heat the upstairs. I don't if I can reasonably expect that to work or not. That's what the previous owner did, but I don't know how effective it was or if he supplemeted the wood heat with gas

Anyway, there is also a fireplace upstairs that I could put an insert into, but would rather keep the mess downstairs if possible.

For the downstairs heater, I think I need the largest heater I can get, would you agree? I see lots of people talking about Blazeking Kings here, so I'm sure they are good heaters. The problem is that there isn't a single dealer in Ga. While I might drive 5 or 6 hours to get one, I think I should at least investigate the other options. What other large models are worth looking at? I think I would prefer steel over cast iron. An ash drawer would be nice. A blower would be nice. I think I would like to have the option of cooking on the top, though I don't see myself doing that unless the power is out. I wouldn't want anything that absoutely required electricity for the heater to run. I want to run the heater even if the power is out. I don't care what the heater looks like, it'll be in an unfinished basement. What would you guys recommend I look at? Oh one more thing, I want to be able to find parts later, so only well established models that they sell a lot of.

Also if you feel strongly that I should buy the Blazeking, feel free to tell me that too.

 

[prezes13]

I would look into a blaze king myself but driving 5 hours? Not for me. Kuuma makes big stoves, but in your application I would look into a Woodstock line of stoves. They are soap stone hybrid stoves which are very pretty in my opinion and get great reviews here.

 

[Woody Stover]

The closer the basement stove is to the stairs, the more the heat will find its way upstairs. Is the basement finished? If not, you may lose a third of the heat produced to the outside. If it is finished, and you can close off some rooms, so much the better for getting heat upstairs.
The BK and the Kuma Sequoia have catalytic combustors...not sure your thoughts on cat vs. non-cat. The Woodstock Ideal Steel is a hybrid....cat and secondary burn, and the bare-bones model is around only $2K. The Kuma's "natural convection" without the blower, looked pretty impressive. The King has about the largest fire box out there. Then there are the "value" non-cat stoves, like the Englander 30-NC and similar, which go for around $1K.

 

[Highbeam]

Then there are the "value" non-cat stoves, like the Englander 30-NC and similar, which go for around $1K.

This. A basement stove, steel, you don't care about looks, other than a BK, the NC30 is a big bang for the buck stove. It makes low emissions and is one of the biggest stoves out there. You should be able to get one delivered for 800$.

2800 SF and heating from a basement, have you considered a wood furnace? There are some really slick ones out there that can blow the hot air through your ductwork to the rest of the house. Or you can use them to dump their heat into the basement. Big blowers, big fireboxes, clean burning, and automated so you don't have to fiddle with the air control like you do on a non-cat stove.

 

[BKVP]

Our company has a policy whereby a hearth retailer can order a product for you if there is not another existing dealer servicing the community.

Have your favorite, local to you retailer contact me at 509-552-2730.

Chris

 

[adrianrog]

So I made the hour log drive today to look at stoves at my local hearth store. I ruled out the budget stoves after looking at a few. The steel is pretty thin and the door is small. Seems like a pain and I hope to use what I buy for a long time. Might as well only cry once. Anyway, I ruled out budget stoves, Buck, Jotul, Vermont Castings, plus a few more. Really the only one I saw that I thought I really liked was a DutchWest Extra Large. The shop had a display model, plus one that was set up that they'd been using to heat the shop for 4 years. I liked that you could side load it, plus it had a grate in the bottom that let ashes fall directly into an ash pan. There was also a square spot on the top made just for cooking. I think the firebox was smaller than the King. Questions for you King folks:

1. Is there a side loading door on the King? Might not matter since it's shaped differently and may be easy to load from the front. I'd prefer a door that I can stick logs in long ways rather than sideways where a log could roll out.

2. Judging by pictures on the website, it looks like a King doesn't have an ash pan. Is that the case? I liked that feature on my old Ashley because the coals stayed on top of the grate while the ash fell through.

3. The Dutchwest had a collar that could mount so that it pointed stright up or straight back. In my case, I need to go into an existing fireplace and the height could be an issue. That would be eliminated by the straight back, but it might not be an issue if the King isn't too tall. Will a elbow on top be too tall to get into the average fireplace?

4. What's the general opinion of Dutch West stoves? That should be easy to answer, kind of like Chevy's are good, but everyone knows Ford's suck.

5. When it comes time to replace the King catalyst, what does it cost? The shop owner at the local store said the Dutch West was around $115 from him.

Chris, I spoke to the owner and he would be open to the idea of ordering a stove from you if that's the way I chose to go.

Thanks,
Adrian
Thanks,

 

[bholler]

What model dutch west was it? They made some good stoves in the past but honestly now they are just a different looking vermont castings stove with all of the same problems with the combustion systems.

 

[adrianrog]

This one: (broken link removed)

 

[BKVP]

No side loading doors. You can load N/S or E/W. Ash pan (no grates) are on the King Ultra, but the Parlor version is optional.

To see pricing on combustors for ALL catalytic stoves, go to
www.firecatcombustors.com

 

[OhioBurner©]

5600 square feet, half being a basement. Yeah I'd say that is King territory if you can get it locally, also realize I think that is an 8" flue stove.

If you can't get the King I'd suggest the Woodstock Ideal Steel. Still decent size 3.2cu' It has a nice ash pan system, and works nice without a blower like you want, have great customer service and parts available, and can cook on it. Still that is a huge space to heat so I'm not sure, then again it's probably much milder winters down there, but you're at double the stoves rated heating. I'd be seriously looking at putting it in the main floor unless you use the basement a lot.

 

[webby3650]

You ruled out budget stoves like Jotul, Buck but ended up at a Dutchwest? We deal DW, it's the only thing from VC that we still carry. Completely cut Vermont castings from our line up due to non-support and poor quality. The Cat DW is a decent heater, but a budget stove in my opinion. I'd choose a Jotul or Buck any day over a dutchwest. Never buy a non-cat Dutchwest! Total piece of crap...

In my opinion for your situation there's no doubt I'd go with a Blaze King. You mentioned hooking into an existing fireplace though. You likely will not find any large stove that will be short enough for this application. BKs need a minimum of 24" of vertical pipe, preferably 36" before an elbow. You really don't want to elbow right off the top of any modern stove. You might need to reconsider your stove location and install a class A chimney, or abandon the fireplace and install a thimble above the fireplace opening.

 

[heavy hammer]

For the amount of area your trying to heat I would go with two stoves if possible. I'm heating about 4000 sq feet, on the mild days the sequoia in the basement does it very easily. I have not had any real cold weather yet but I know having the summit on the first floor will definitely help. My basement is finished which also helps, but you live in Georgia not northeast Ohio. I believe the blaze king will give you a lot of the heat you want but I don't know if it can do it all on its own. Plus as said above you might want to take some pics so others can see how you are going to tie into your chimney. The less bends and longer chimney only helps.

 

[Woody Stover]

Really the only one I saw that I thought I really liked was a DutchWest Extra Large....you could side load it, plus it had a grate in the bottom that let ashes fall directly into an ash pan. There was also a square spot on the top made just for cooking...it looks like a King doesn't have an ash pan. Is that the case? I liked that feature on my old Ashley because the coals stayed on top of the grate while the ash fell through.

I've had a Dutchwest 2460 for years; It's now my backup stove. It was the stove that spoiled me on having a grated ash-handling system. The Buck 91 at least had a big ash dump with a hinged lid, and it was off to the left side so it was pretty easy to shove the coals to the other side of the stove and get rid of the ash. But any stove that doesn't have a grate is gonna have a hard time making it onto my hearth at this point. I enjoy "no muss, no fuss," and I ain't goin' back if I can help it.

The Dutchwest had a collar that could mount so that it pointed stright up or straight back. In my case, I need to go into an existing fireplace and the height could be an issue. That would be eliminated by the straight back, but it might not be an issue if the King isn't too tall. Will a elbow on top be too tall to get into the average fireplace?

Generally, you want at least 3' straight up before any elbows, on a top-vent stove. I'm venting into a fireplace so I want a rear-vent stove. You can go straight up a few feet, then cut into the fireplace chimney, but that doesn't look as clean. A short-leg kit is available for the Dutchwest, if needed.

When it comes time to replace the King catalyst, what does it cost? The shop owner at the local store said the Dutch West was around $115 from him.

You can get a DuraFoil stainless combustor, 6" round, from Woodstock. It's made for some of their older stoves but it fits the Dutchwest. $125. The combustors for most big cat stoves will run in the neighborhood of $275, and you can't get steel (except BK.) The Dutchwest has got several things going for it, and would probably do OK there. It's hard to get into a cat stove for that cheap (2K?) Drawbacks would be the small window, and the fire box isn't quite as big as some. I think it's around 3 cu.ft. though, and cats will burn a long time at low output.
The features you are looking seem to be pointing you to Woodstock. I've used a couple of their stone stoves and have been impressed by the superior engineering and the heavy-duty construction (which you may not find in some other high-priced stoves.) Their Ideal Steel sounds like it would be right up your alley; Welded plate-steel box (no seam maintenance,) top- or rear-vent (rare in steel stoves,) wide output range with cat and/or secondary burn modes, grated ash system, cheap cats (and replacement parts in general) and as I said, you can get in for about $2K. Another bonus is the 6" flue, which the vast majority of stoves are today, in case you put in a different stove down the road....and pipe is less costly that the 8" required for the Ex-lg Dw and BKK. The IS is a front-loader but I think you can load N-S or E-W, and I believe there are andirons so you don't have logs rolling into the glas on an E-W load.
Now, if your place is well-insulated you could probably get by with the bigger swings in output of a non-cat stove, with your house buffering that output. If you open it up to non-cats, your stove selection just increased by 3-4X. .

 

[webby3650]

I've had a Dutchwest 2460 for years; It's now my backup stove. It was the stove that spoiled me on having a grated ash-handling system. The Buck 91 at least had a big ash dump with a hinged lid, and it was off to the left side so it was pretty easy to shove the coals to the other side of the stove and get rid of the ash. But any stove that doesn't have a grate is gonna have a hard time making it onto my hearth at this point. I enjoy "no muss, no fuss," and I ain't goin' back if I can help it.
Generally, you want at least 3' straight up before any elbows, on a top-vent stove. I'm venting into a fireplace so I want a rear-vent stove. You can go straight up a few feet, then cut into the fireplace chimney, but that doesn't look as clean. A short-leg kit is available for the Dutchwest, if needed.
You can get a DuraFoil stainless combustor, 6" round, from Woodstock. It's made for some of their older stoves but it fits the Dutchwest. $125. The combustors for most big cat stoves will run in the neighborhood of $275, and you can't get steel (except BK.) The Dutchwest has got several things going for it, and would probably do OK there. It's hard to get into a cat stove for that cheap (2K?) Drawbacks would be the small window, and the fire box isn't quite as big as some. I think it's around 3 cu.ft. though, and cats will burn a long time at low output.
The features you are looking seem to be pointing you to Woodstock. I've used a couple of their stone stoves and have been impressed by the superior engineering and the heavy-duty construction (which you won't find in some other high-priced stoves.) Their Ideal Steel sounds like it would be right up your alley; Welded plate-steel box (no seam maintenance,) top- or rear-vent (rare in steel stoves,) wide output range with cat and/or secondary burn modes, grated ash system, cheap cats (and replacement parts in general) and as I said, you can get in for about $2K. Another bonus is the 6" flue, which the vast majority of stoves are today, in case you put in a different stove down the road....and pipe is less costly that the 8" required for the Ex-lg Dw and BKK. The IS is a front-loader but I think you can load N-S or E-W, and I believe there are andirons so you don't have logs rolling into the glas on an E-W load.
Now, if your place is well-insulated you could probably get by with the bigger swings in output of a non-cat stove, with your house buffering that output. If you open it up to non-cats, your stove selection just increased by 3-4X. .

Unless the grate holes are too small and ash won't fall through. This quadra-fires floor won't let ashes fall through it, no matter how fine they are. It sucks, I'd much rather have a plug.

 

[Woody Stover]

Unless the grate holes are too small and ash won't fall through. This quadra-fires floor won't let ashes fall through it, no matter how fine they are. It sucks, I'd much rather have a plug.

True. That's where the "superior engineering" part comes in.
One thing I forgot to mention that the Woodstocks don't have is provision for a blower, but the legs/sides of the IS should offer some natural convection. You could put a small fan somewhere, blowing around the stove body, but I suspect that in GA you may not need to pull extra heat off the stove body in most cases. Still, you have a big space, and if your insulation/air sealing isn't good, you might need big stove output, plus a blower. The IS has a high maximum output rating based on the EPA numbers, for those times that you need extra heat. I'm not sure how much weight these should be given but from what I've seen in stoves I've run, they seem to ring true. https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2013-08/documents/certifiedwood.pdf
Or you could do the other option mentioned, go with a two-stove setup. Obviously more expensive, but also more flexible. There's really not much mess if you have grated ash-handling, and carry the wood to the stove in a tote.

 

[Niko]

I wrote this on someone else thread but I hope it can help you.

I own a king ultra and love the stove. I drove 4 hrs away to buy one, the dealers in my area do not sell blaze king. It Was well worth the drive and I would do it and recommend the same to others. I have had it now 3 years. When you have it for couple of years and compare the years of burning everything these guys say make sense. Density of the wood, is your wood dry, pipe length, elbows etc. I am buring a mixture of Locus and black oak now for the first time ever and OOOO man it is like a night and dy difference. Too much heat so i have my thermostat much lower then usual. I get 24+ burn times the coals from these specis burn extremely hot. I never run it where i completely have no coals left i just reload it once a night. If i forget or am busy with work the stove still is plenty hot the next morning and still has coals in it to start a new fire easily. Thats at the 36 hr mark. So usually at 9pm i Put in a half load cause the bottom is coals and dont fill it again unitl the next night at 9pm.

My house is 3,000 square feet, stove is downstairs. House has lots of rooms, downstairs temps are usually 80 degrees and upstairs between 72-67, 67 being the farthest away from the stove. I am adressing my homes insulation bit by bit which is not bad, but can be better. The temps above are for the 30 degree temps. When they reach 0 degree i dont turn up the stove really because then my downstairs would be like 90+ degrees and upstairs i only see a 1 degree increase in the colder part. So we set our thermometers fot 67.

My setup has paid me back in one year. If you take the temps my house is at and use oil at those same temps the fuel bill would be a lot more then what i paid to buy everything.

 

[Poindexter]

I am looking at two graduate schools outside Alaska in the lower 48 and would absokutelt drive 5 hours one way to buy from a BK dealer.

If i go and find a reputa le dealer near for the chimney and could use the onsey offer from Chris its a slam dunk.

Have you one stairwell to the basement or two? with 2 stairwells you can likely set up a convective loop cheap and its nothing but net.

 

[adrianrog]

Here's an update: It's cooled off in GA a little and I've been burning the existing stove downstairs. Despite having a nice toasty basement, I can't seem to get much heat upstairs. There is one stairwell and even leaving that open, it's just not warm up stairs. This, plus the idea of running up and down the stairs to check the stove is making me think relying on a single stove in the basement is maybe not the best idea. The fact is that I don't much care whether the basement is warm or not, so perhaps I should be looking at a stove for upstairs on the main living level rather than in the basement. Upstairs, I don't think there is enough room for a stove without it looking a little funny. There is a traditional fireplace up there now, so an insert may be my only option. The fireplace opening is 36" wide and 28" tall. I found these pictures to post, sorry they aren't that great. I'll try to get a couple of more.

 

[prezes13]

I think that the Shirocco 25 from Blaze King would look awesome in your fire place. Beautiful living room by the way.