Botched install? How would you handle this?

[Fsappo]

That bolt could be to pull the liner, it just looks like pulling the liner wouldnt be an issue, looks like plenty of room. If its to keep the elbow from sliding in, that should have been done with fasteners attaching the pipe to the flue collar.

Looks like a little bit of a hack job. But you would NOT get me to the top of that chimney even if Joe Namath and Jessica Alba were having a Superbowl party up there with free beer and wings.

 

[cmonSTART]

Aw come on.. That looks like fun!

 

[mhrischuk]

may prevent a brush from damaging the baffle if they forget to remove it before hand.

This may be the only reason for the bolt. People come up with ideas. This company may have had the experience of having to fix wood stoves after damaging them during a cleaning. It also gives you something to grab when pulling the liner out.

As far as the leak is concerned, from what I have read, some recommend leaving the liner loose up top with only the clamp keeping it from sliding back down through the top plate. This is for liner expansion during the heat up cycle. Maybe it simply isn't well sealed there and driven rain gets in.

 

[Install fire 1]

The bolt is a piece offered from regency called a flue connector kit. When a positive connection on the top of the insert is impossible due to a zero/short lintle, the rod goes through with bolts and washers on the outside, you reach inside the insert, get the connector into the outlet, and a J hook with another bar that goes acroos the 6" outlet opening inside hooks onto the upper bar. With the J hook being threaded at the bottom and two horizontal bars it ties it all together for a snug fit without screws.

Looks like they had a lot of space for a drill, so no need for this extra kit, but it may have been the only 15 degree elbow they had. The J hook may not have been used, but the two holes were filled up with the top horizontal bolt to prevent leaks. Wont hurt anything, just more expensive for the dealer.

I guess the brush won't go right into the extended flue adapter though. Tougher to clean.

Hopefully this makes sense.

 

[zknowlto]

Update: After a heavy rainstorm this weekened, was was still leaking onto the insert, though seemingly from a slightly different spot. I called the company again about this and they refused to send anyone out again. They claimed that it was my masonry or roof that was causing the problem. They also claimed I wasn't entitled to a refund for the money I spent "fixing" this problem because they supposedly "tried everything". Needless to say, I'm very frustrated.

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

Just a few questions:
1. Do you get alot of water in firebox?

2.( From the pix I can't tell) Where the continious pipe exits the terra cotta is flat or rounded or cracked? The chimney cap.

3. Have you tried the run a water hose to see if the chimney itself is leaking? Not on the top but the part that meets the shingles by the flashing.

My chimney cap is concrete/mortar and it slopes to make like a bubble. I have also heard it referred to as a "wash". Is there to keep water from going done the terra cotta. If you get alot of water going down the inside of the pipe into the firebox. It could be that the cap is not big enough. My pipe exits terra cotta and is 6" ID, my cap is like 10-12" wide and low profile to keep water from dripping into the pipe.

I would try hosing the roof near the flashing not the chimney cap to see what is up. Maybe have wife/child do it and you inspect? If no leak there it might be the wash/top plate? I know you may be uncomfortable and if so, I would not reccomend it but I would have to see for myself! If I was closer I would gladly do it for you.

It seems that your installer has done all they are capable of. I would have to know for myself what was done and if I can make it better! If you do go up with ladder, strap it! Also don't lean it on the broad side of the chimney. Lean it on the narrow side. If the chimney is weak it is possible to push it over! Not sayng it is but can't tll from pix.

BE SAFE

 

[DAKSY]

Is there any way you could post MORE pix?
I'd like to see the chimney/roof junction from the side
& maybe from a closer position. Is there a chimney cricket
on the larger roof BEHIND the chimney?
Is there step flashing on either side & on the front porch roof?
Is it cut into the chimney & correctly tarred/caulked into the grooves?
Another question is: What did the original steel firebox look like BEFORE
the install? Was that rusted as badly as your insert?

 

[elmoleaf]

Likely causes in decreasing order of probability:
1. Gap between concrete crown and clay flue liner.
2. Metal flue cap not mechanically fastened and sealed to protruding top of clay liner.
2. Crack(s) in crown.
3. Poor crown design (no slope, bad or missing drip cut at edge is allowing water to return underneath crown or onto bricks below).
4. Failing mortar joints in main chimney body (40-50 year old masonry will often need repointing of joints). Most susceptible would be the "brick roofs" at the chimney offsets.
5. Poor flashing at roof line. The cricket appears poorly constructed...should have a level ridge and the shingles look lapped in wrong direction. Step flashing appears to be missing from sides of chimney at roof line. These issues however probably would cause leaking elsewhere, not in the firebox.

Final observations: The original metal damper box in your most recent pics up inside the fireplaces appears to be heavily rusted. It's likely the chimney has been leaking water down the clay liner into the firebox for years. The previous owner's "work" on the chimney suggests previous problems.
Most all concrete crowns are poured tight to the clay liner. These materials experience differential movement during temperature changes, as well as the concrete slightly shrinks over time. This leads to cracks and gaps for water to enter between the clay and crown. The best practice is to keep this as a sealant joint, with a gasket backer rod and high temperature sealant.

Good luck.

 

[pastera]

The bolt is a piece offered from regenc
y called a flue connector kit. When a positive connection on the top of the insert is impossible due to a zero/short lintle, the rod goes through with bolts and washers on the outside, you reach inside the insert, get the connector into the outlet, and a J hook with another bar that goes acroos the 6" outlet opening inside hooks onto the upper bar. With the J hook being threaded at the bottom and two horizontal bars it ties it all together for a snug fit without screws.

Looks like they had a lot of space for a drill, so no need for this extra kit, but it may have been the only 15 degree elbow they had. The J hook may not have been used, but the two holes were filled up with the top horizontal bolt to prevent leaks. Wont hurt anything, just more expensive for the dealer.

I guess the brush won't go right into the extended flue adapter though. Tougher to clean.

Hopefully this makes sense.

Not sure why you would need this as the flue adapter slides into rear of the insert as the stove is pushed into the fireplace. A pull rod helps align and pull the adapter then it bolts in from inside the firebox.
Without this arrangement, my install would not have been possible - only about 3" of clearance.

 

[zknowlto]

Just a few questions:
1. Do you get alot of water in firebox?

2.( From the pix I can't tell) Where the continious pipe exits the terra cotta is flat or rounded or cracked? The chimney cap.

3. Have you tried the run a water hose to see if the chimney itself is leaking? Not on the top but the part that meets the shingles by the flashing.

My chimney cap is concrete/mortar and it slopes to make like a bubble. I have also heard it referred to as a "wash". Is there to keep water from going done the terra cotta. If you get alot of water going down the inside of the pipe into the firebox. It could be that the cap is not big enough. My pipe exits terra cotta and is 6" ID, my cap is like 10-12" wide and low profile to keep water from dripping into the pipe.

I would try hosing the roof near the flashing not the chimney cap to see what is up. Maybe have wife/child do it and you inspect? If no leak there it might be the wash/top plate? I know you may be uncomfortable and if so, I would not reccomend it but I would have to see for myself! If I was closer I would gladly do it for you.

It seems that your installer has done all they are capable of. I would have to know for myself what was done and if I can make it better! If you do go up with ladder, strap it! Also don't lean it on the broad side of the chimney. Lean it on the narrow side. If the chimney is weak it is possible to push it over! Not sayng it is but can't tll from pix.

BE SAFE

1) Not very much. We had one very storm where I noticed some dampness on the bottom firebrick.

2) I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. From what I can tell, the metal is flat over the terra cotta. I'm not sure whether there's a crack or seam in it.

3) The company that came to fix this really really wanted to claim this was a masonry/flashing problem and hosed these areas down extensively to try and show this. They were never able to. The only time water ever got onto the insert was when the started spraying on the caps.

Is there any way you could post MORE pix?
I’d like to see the chimney/roof junction from the side
& maybe from a closer position. Is there a chimney cricket
on the larger roof BEHIND the chimney?
Is there step flashing on either side & on the front porch roof?
Is it cut into the chimney & correctly tarred/caulked into the grooves?
Another question is: What did the original steel firebox look like BEFORE
the install? Was that rusted as badly as your insert?

I'll try to post more pictures tomorrow. There is a cricket. Additionally, the flashing was totally redone around the chimney maybe a month after the insert was installed. I visual inspection of the flashing looks okay, but I've not gotten behind the chimney to check the cricket area. Honestly, I don't really remember the condition of the firebox before the installation, but I don't remember the metal doors showing any evidence of water.

Elmoleaf: Thanks for your thoughts on this. I'm having a different company take a look at this on Monday and will make sure they check out what you've recommended.

Thanks again for the advice all. Hopefully I can get to the bottom of this soon.

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

2) That's part of what I am talking about. The new metal cap for the terra cotta is part of it. If that metal is not bent around the terra cotta then water wil leak around the flex liner.

The other part is the chimney crown/wash/cap. This is made of mortar/concrete and over time can crack and flake away for expansion contraction. If you look in google images you can find good and bad ones but type in chimney crown and you will see.