Breckwell Big E Installation Questions

[DallasW]

Hey everyone,
After getting some slightly absurd quotes as high as $1200+piping/tax to install my Breckwell, I'm looking now at installing it myself. There is a WETT inspector locally who can inspect it so I'm likely going to go this route, but I have a few small questions that I'm hoping you could help me out with.

1. Placement - We live in an old church (high ceilings and open floor layout), and this will be going upstairs (downstairs and in some of the closed rooms upstairs we're going to still use natural gas to heat as needed). There are two bedrooms, a bathroom upstairs, the rest is all open to the 16ft ceiling. We're planning on placing this against the side wall in the corner of the living room. The only other option would be the back wall in more of the kitchen/dining room area, but that would curb the ability to expand cupboards and be far away from the "sitting" area, so I think the living room would be a better option?

2. We want to place the stove in the very corner as an angled install if at all possible, but the problem this would create would be that the vent pipe would have to go out beneath the window then angle so it can go in between the two windows. Pictures may be able to help visualize this better:

As you can see the stove has been sitting unused for quite some time . Obviously chairs/couches/STOCKINGS/etc would get moved around once this gets installed. I was planning on the exhaust going straight out around the center of the window below it, 90' angle to the right (looking from the inside, the red bars on the outside give you an idea of what I mean, the white bar is for scale, that's around 8'). Is there any problems with this, I'd be using 4" piping. I have to terminate at least 1' above the window, and I need minimum 8' of vertical piping anyways, so I'd have the following in EVL:

From Stove:
45' Elbow - 3 EVL
~4' Horizontal - 4EVL
90' Elbow - 5EVL
~2' Horizontal - 2EVL
90' Elbow - 5EVL
~10' Vertical - 5EVL
90' + 45' termination point - ??EVL

That brings me to 24' EVL before I get to the termination point, is that too much for 4" pipe? How much EVL does the termination count as, is it another 8'? Is there a better way to do this?

The other option would be to install the stove along the face of the wall between the windows, approximately where the chair is in the picture, and then that would eliminate a lot of the need for the angles/bends.

3) For WETT certification (Ontario building code) is there any requirement to terminate past your roof overhang? Should I just be going straight up around the roof overhang as recommended in the Breckwell manual with a vertical roof vent? Our overhang for reference is pretty small, eyeballing it it's about 1.5-2'

4) I'm thinking of going with this piping kit, and then just adding the required pieces (45' elbow, 90' elbow, maybe a bit more and the horizontal piping for the exterior). Is that a decent price, rather than piecing it all together? Is this the same as "L-Vent" piping that Breckwell recommends?

I think that's all the questions I have for now, thanks so much for the help in advance!

 

[kinsmanstoves]

All I can say is good luck and my the force be with you.

3" and 4" venting does not like horizontal so avoid it as much as possible.

Eric

 

[DallasW]

All I can say is good luck and my the force be with you.

3" and 4" venting does not like horizontal so avoid it as much as possible.

Eric

Good to know, even if it's only ~2 ft to get to the side of the window, not a good plan hey? Maybe I'll have to put it along the face of the wall...

Or could I put the vertical section inside and then go out the wall above the window instead? I've seen that done with other stove install videos/pictures but the breckwell manual doesn't show that. Bad idea?

 

[kinsmanstoves]

I would suggest vertical with 4" Dura Vent Pellet Vent Pro.

Eric

 

[DallasW]

I would suggest vertical with 4" Dura Vent Pellet Vent Pro.

Eric

Good to know. If I do that vertical/above the window route. How long does the vertical section outside have to be before the termination hook?

Can it go as follows:

From stove:
90' Elbow - 5EVL
~10' Vertical - 5EVL
90' Elbow - 5EVL
~2ft Horizontal - 2EVL
90' Elbow - 5EVL
90' Elbow + 45' Elbow Termination - 8EVL

Brings the total to 30 EVL (in comparison to 32 EVL for the previous setup counting the termination)

Edit: Or can I run the pipe outside the window? How often do you have to have wall straps on exterior piping? Probably not a good idea if I just had none of them for the length of the window?

 

[kinsmanstoves]

That is way to much pipe and angles. EVL is 15 with 3" and no more than 25 with 4".

Eric

 

[DallasW]

That is way to much pipe and angles. EVL is 15 with 3" and no more than 25 with 4".

Eric

Alright, can I go with a just a 45' endcap if I go the vertical route inside? That would make the total ~20 EVL. Something like shown here in the pellet vent pro brochure:

Thanks for the help Eric!

 

[kinsmanstoves]

The windows are your biggest issue. Refer to the manual, I do not have a current manual.

Eric

 

[DallasW]

Thanks for the help Eric, the Breckwell manual referred to the vent manuals. DuraVent Pellet Pro recommended 4' but you can go at least 8'. I think it'll be easier to just run the pipe inside though, and then straight out through the wall with a 45' elbow for a termination. Is there any need for wall straps on the interior?

 

[MSmith66]

Hey everyone,
After getting some slightly absurd quotes as high as $1200+piping/tax to install my Breckwell, I'm looking now at installing it myself. There is a WETT inspector locally who can inspect it so I'm likely going to go this route, but I have a few small questions that I'm hoping you could help me out with.

1. Placement - We live in an old church (high ceilings and open floor layout), and this will be going upstairs (downstairs and in some of the closed rooms upstairs we're going to still use natural gas to heat as needed). There are two bedrooms, a bathroom upstairs, the rest is all open to the 16ft ceiling. We're planning on placing this against the side wall in the corner of the living room. The only other option would be the back wall in more of the kitchen/dining room area, but that would curb the ability to expand cupboards and be far away from the "sitting" area, so I think the living room would be a better option?

2. We want to place the stove in the very corner as an angled install if at all possible, but the problem this would create would be that the vent pipe would have to go out beneath the window then angle so it can go in between the two windows. Pictures may be able to help visualize this better:

As you can see the stove has been sitting unused for quite some time . Obviously chairs/couches/STOCKINGS/etc would get moved around once this gets installed. I was planning on the exhaust going straight out around the center of the window below it, 90' angle to the right (looking from the inside, the red bars on the outside give you an idea of what I mean, the white bar is for scale, that's around 8'). Is there any problems with this, I'd be using 4" piping. I have to terminate at least 1' above the window, and I need minimum 8' of vertical piping anyways, so I'd have the following in EVL:

From Stove:
45' Elbow - 3 EVL
~4' Horizontal - 4EVL
90' Elbow - 5EVL
~2' Horizontal - 2EVL
90' Elbow - 5EVL
~10' Vertical - 5EVL
90' + 45' termination point - ??EVL

That brings me to 24' EVL before I get to the termination point, is that too much for 4" pipe? How much EVL does the termination count as, is it another 8'? Is there a better way to do this?

The other option would be to install the stove along the face of the wall between the windows, approximately where the chair is in the picture, and then that would eliminate a lot of the need for the angles/bends.

3) For WETT certification (Ontario building code) is there any requirement to terminate past your roof overhang? Should I just be going straight up around the roof overhang as recommended in the Breckwell manual with a vertical roof vent? Our overhang for reference is pretty small, eyeballing it it's about 1.5-2'

4) I'm thinking of going with this piping kit, and then just adding the required pieces (45' elbow, 90' elbow, maybe a bit more and the horizontal piping for the exterior). Is that a decent price, rather than piecing it all together? Is this the same as "L-Vent" piping that Breckwell recommends?

I think that's all the questions I have for now, thanks so much for the help in advance!

Try i the install with an outside air kit, O.A.K., that will allow you a closer distance to the windows OR if the windows are "Fixed" than you are good to go, Install it.

 

[Jefflitzy]

Where in Ontario are you? It can make a difference in venting. What works in Southern Ontario does not always work in the other province of Ontario - North of Thunder Bay. It does make a difference. I am closer to Dallas TX than Toronto yet still in Ontario.

The clearance to a window or door that may be opened must be 48" to the side, 48" below the window/door, and 12"above the window/door. and the vertical clearance to a ventilated soffit located above the terminal within a horizontal distance of 2 feet from the center-line of the terminal must be a minimun of 18"

 

[DallasW]

Where in Ontario are you? It can make a difference in venting. What works in Southern Ontario does not always work in the other province of Ontario - North of Thunder Bay. It does make a difference. I am closer to Dallas TX than Toronto yet still in Ontario.

The clearance to a window or door that may be opened must be 48" to the side, 48" below the window/door, and 12"above the window/door. and the vertical clearance to a ventilated soffit located above the terminal within a horizontal distance of 2 feet from the center-line of the terminal must be a minimun of 18"

Awesome, thanks for this info, this is what I really need to know for this above window idea. I'm located in Sarnia, so pretty for south, don't know if that changes the bylaws/etc, waiting to hear back from my local building department.

I don't have any problems with the window if I exit above it (only the bottom half opens which is well below 1' clearance, but I may have an issue with the soffit clearance. The soffit is unventilated, so do you know if that changes clearances at all? Also, in the breckwell manual they don't state any specific clearance for soffits in the text of the manual, but in a diagram at the end show that it must be at least 24" below any roof overhang. Does that basically overrule any bylaw stating anything else (ie. 18" clearance to an soffit for example, I'd need to find out this number...)

Also, do you know how that 18" number is calculated, I might be tight if 24" clearance is needed, depending on how it's measured. From what the manual shows it looks like they measure from B-C in the diagram below? If that's the case I might be too close. I'm going to measure this later today to see what my clearance would be.

If that's the case, I may have to make an angle on the inside and install it between the two windows, something like this (looking from the inside):

Which would meet the requirements of being more than 1' above the window (as it only counts as the openable part of the window, correct?), and 24" below the soffit. And would give me the following in EVL:
From Stove:
90" Tee - 5EVL
~8' Vertical - 4EVL
90" Elbow - 5EVL
2' Horizontal - 2EVL
90" Elbow-5EVL
~2'Horizontal - 2EVL (Through thimble)
45" Termination - 3EVL

Bringing the total to about 26EVL. Is this still too many elbows/bends? This placement is getting a bit annoying...

 

[DallasW]

Or I guess I could do this instead by going at a 45' angle:

This gives me:
From Stove:
90" Tee - 5EVL
~7' Vertical - 3.5EVL
45" Elbow - 5EVL
3.5' Angled - <3.5EVL
90" Elbow-5EVL
~2'Horizontal - 2EVL (Through thimble)
45" Termination - 3EVL

Giving me 26EVL at the most (I'm assuming a 45' angled pipe counts as less than 1ft=1'EVL)

 

[buildingmaint]

I have a Big E , did the install myself, and I just ran the pipe straight out the wall. Yes I do get some smoke in the house if the power goes out, but it is not that much smoke, and I just open the window that the stove sits beside.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

May I suggest straight up?

 

[kinsmanstoves]

May I suggest straight up?

Refer to post #4

Eric

 

[Don2222]

Hello

It is recommended to have the vertical rise inside the house.
The pipe stays cleaner and smoke is not as likely to back up.
Also if you change stoves, you do not have to cut another hole higher or lower for the new stove, just use an adjustable pipe.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Refer to post #4

Eric

Yeah, I saw that, just wanted it out there again since the window where all of the outs were planned appears to be operable. Also with a vertical setup he can likely use 3" as well.

 

[kinsmanstoves]

Yeah, I saw that, just wanted if out there again since the window where all of the outs were planned appears to be operable. Also with a vertical setup he can likely use 3" as well.

But we are the only ones that see that.

Eric

 

[DallasW]

Refer to post #4

Eric

Ahhh, sorry Eric, I completely misread that as suggesting what I posted in the post #7 picture! I'm thinking straight up might be the best option you're right, but have more questions (sorry!!).

So this should be pretty straight forward to do, but I'm not sure how to go about going through the ceiling, as above the stove along the wall is a curved section (can't remember for sure what it looks like in the attic however). How would I go about installing the support assembly in this scenario? (The vent would go around the midpoint of the curved section)

Also with a vertical setup he can likely use 3" as well.

This is interesting, we actually got a bunch of leftover lengths of new 3" pipe as well as tees/elbows when we bought the stove, I was assuming I couldn't use it, but this would be nice to save some cost.

 

[Don2222]

Hello

I would suggest Selkirk DT to go straight up. Because the outer wall is cool, all you need is a hole as big as the pipe. I install the Selkirk DT whenever I can because it works better than any other system I have seen. It has an up and out termination kit or a straight up thru the roof termination kit.

This is the only system that pre-heats the burn air to help prevent that dreaded caked ash in the burn pot!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Don,

No caked ash in my burn pot.

 

[Don2222]

Don,

No caked ash in my burn pot.

I still get some on damp days like last night when it was sleeting all night. I wish I could put that system in. What is the CFM of your exhaust blower? I was thinking of increasing mine.

 

[kinsmanstoves]

But in longer runs will it cool the gas too much causing creosote? I sat in on a Dura Vent seminar where they spoke of the new class A two way pipe. When I asked the Dura Vent fellas about excessive cooling they stuttered and had a look on their faces like a young lad caught looking at dad's Playboy.

Eric

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I still get some on damp days like last night when it was sleeting all night. I wish I could put that system in. What is the CFM of your exhaust blower? I was thinking of increasing mine.

The same as this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005DTDOG0/ref=oh_o01_s00_i00_details