Breckwell p23i Combustion Blower won't turn off

TisDone Posted By TisDone, Mar 30, 2012 at 12:04 PM

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System Upgrade. Monday 9/16 7am central time.Thanks for your patience.
  1. TisDone

    TisDone
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    Mar 29, 2012
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    Greetings - first time poster, long time lurker. I've done some searching of the forum archives, but haven't been able to find any useful info.

    I have a Breckwell p23i that is now finishing its 4th season of use. We love it greatly, and for its first 3.5 years, it has been trouble free. I do regular ash cleanings and vacumings of the places ash loves to settle.

    Alas, starting a few months back - we began to notice that when one went to turn the stove off, it would indeed turn off and the fire would go out and the stove would cool down, but alas, the combustion blower continues to run, and would not turn itself off at all. Then - it started to make a truly obnoxious noise. After reviewing the forums here, and listening with a careful ear, I was able to verify that it was indeed the bears on the combustion blower that had gone.

    I went ahead and ordered a replacement combustion blower (the newer quieter one). I installed it myself, and it works fine (and is indeed a welcome difference on the quietness front.

    Alas - the stove itself still behaves the same way. When one turns it off, the fire will stop - but the combustion blower doesn't turn off until you unplug the stove and/or turn off the power strip its plugged in to. Further, when you plug it back in, the stove will automatically turn itself on. Thus - for ash cleaning it is necessary to keep it unplugged.

    Does this mean the control board or a sensor needs to be replaced? Loose sensor wire somewhere? I've looked at the wiring and all appears to be has it should.

    Any hints or suggestions that can be offered would be welcome. Thanks in advance!
    -Eric
     
  2. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear
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    Likely the triac that controls the combustion blower has failed in the on state.

    If you have soldering skills and locate the bad triac (usually there are four on the control board) you can replace the bad one, they are a common and cheap component.

    If you post a picture of the control board someone may be able to point out the one to replace.
     
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  3. 4Dtvman

    4Dtvman
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    If you live near the south coast bring the PCB and the triac's and I'll solder them for you. That's what I do.
     
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  4. TisDone

    TisDone
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    Mar 29, 2012
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    Here's the control board. Are the triac's the 4 white IC-package-looking units in a row on the left? From top to bottom, they are labeled:
    MOC3020 - 813Q
    MOC3020 - 813Q
    MOC3031 - 811Q
    MOC3031 - 811Q
    Breckwellp23iControlBoard.jpg

    If it is they are one of the 4 black flat units that are more centrally located - then I can't quite make out the numbers reliably, but it is something like: 1835 6006 MAR 729 (but I wouldn't bet on it, even with a magnifying glass I'm having trouble with those.

    I appreciate the help - I am fairly handy with a soldering iron - and if pointed in the right direction for what to replace, I should be able to take care of it.

    Thanks, -Eric
     
  5. 4Dtvman

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  6. jtakeman

    jtakeman
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    Are you sure its just the combustuion blower running? Sure sounds like the POF switch is stuck closed.

    When you first turn the stove back on does the convection fan start right up?
     
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  7. TisDone

    TisDone
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    Mar 29, 2012
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    jtakeman - thanks for the cue to double-check that. The stove starts up right away when power is restored (ie plug it back in, wait 5 seconds, and it will start to power on normally as if it had been off and the power button was pressed). However - it is the combustion blower that kicks on initially (as it should, I believe). The convection blower waits until a few minutes later to come on, shortly before ignition.

    But yes - if by POF switch you mean what the manual calls the POF thermodisk, then yes, this does sound reasonable - reading the troubleshotting section of the manual - it says that to test if the thermocouple is bad, remove the brown wires, short them with a piece of wire, and if the stove cranks up, replace the POF thermodisk. It says don't leave it shorted like this since if the fire went out the auger won't stop feeding pellets (which I've noticed once during this time) and the blowers stay on. So this explanation makes sense if this switch has managed to short itself out.

    If this is the right part (the manual parts list says Thermodisk, Proof of Fire - C-E-090-22C -- though online, various places seem to have it listed as 60T22 as well, is this indeed the same part?), it looks easy enough to fix.

    Thanks, -Eric
     
  8. DexterDay

    DexterDay
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    If the blower runs till you unplug it, the stove is starting immediately, and the convection blower is starting before ignition (up to temp).

    Then it sounds like the board? ? I hope not. But those 3 symptoms are things that shouldn't be happening (at least when you say they are?)...????
     
  9. jtakeman

    jtakeman
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    Your convection fan shouldn't come on until you have fire for a few minutes. The stove needs to warm up to 120ºF.

    If your turning the stove off or using a thermostat, They will cut the auger feed. So they do shutoff the fire. The POF controls the fans. Instead of jumping try a toggle switch. Shut down the stovew and let the fire die out. Turn the toggle to off and the fans should stop.
     
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  10. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear
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    Having fun yet?
     
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  11. TisDone

    TisDone
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    Troubleshooting's always a hoot, though usually its through code and not circuits. The switch idea sounds like a good one. I've got a spare toggle switch around here somewhere and will give that a try. I'm assuming the stove's logic goes like this: during startup, the stove ignores the state of the POF switch, which is in its normally open state. Then - once up and running, the heat causes the switch to close. Then, after the stove is shut off, after the fans run for a bit to cool things down, the switch returns to normally open, which then kills power to the fans.

    I won't get a chance to try the switch for until Monday, going away this weekend. I'll check back in and update the thread after I put the switch in next week.

    Thanks, -Eric
     
  12. jtakeman

    jtakeman
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    Breckwells controller doesn't ignore the POF state and could care less if its stuck closed. If its see it closed it just fires the convection fan at start up. And run the combustion fan till the cows come home. It will only flash a error code if it doesn't close! They cheaped out on the logic in the controller. Some of the other stoves with similar controllers have logic to warn if the POF is faulty. They sense it being closed or open when the POF shouldn't be and flash a error code.
     
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  13. huggmeister

    huggmeister
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    What does the 813Q number mean on the above mentioned component picture? Is there a difference, or can you just order by the
    3020 number?
     
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  14. jtakeman

    jtakeman
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    yes there is a difference.
    You either need to order MOC3020 - 813Q or MOC3031 - 811Q and replace them in the proper location on the board. I would not mix or match them JIC.

    Generally its not the opto relay that fails its usually the triac.
     
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  15. huggmeister

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    OK, So what is triac and where do I get those please?
     
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  16. jtakeman

    jtakeman
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    02.jpg

    These are the triacs. Use the exact replacement as whats on the board.You can buy them at Digi-key, Newark, or Mousers
     
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  17. Owen1508

    Owen1508
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    Did you check the POF disc, like Jtakeman suggested? It sounds right, besides it would be a cheaper/easier fix. On that model it has a reset button on it.
     
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  18. huggmeister

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    Hi, The POF switch would not click on and off by itself though right? Shouldn't I look more at the triac side of it?
     
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  19. huggmeister

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    Thank you very much for the advice.
     
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  20. huggmeister

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    Thank you.
     
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  21. Owen1508

    Owen1508
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    On the P23 the POF disc is not wired to the room blower it is wired back to the control board. So if the POF switch is stuck it will always tell the control board that there is a hot fire in the firebox. A quick way to check if the POF is stuck is to disconnect the POF wire. If the room fan does not turn off the the issue will NOT be the POF. If The fan does not turn on, then the issue is the POF disc. In the first case then I would look towards the board and in the latter I would change the POF disc.
     
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  22. huggmeister

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    Do you know on this picture what triac controls what?
     
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  23. Owen1508

    Owen1508
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    You said you had it 4 years. Did you get it new? What I need to know is #1 is it the orginial board? and #2 is the serial number over 6300? If not what is the serial number. The P23 had various boards all look similar. Off the SN I can find the board diagram and pinpoint that info for you. I might take me a while digging the diagrams up, but I can get that info NP.
     
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  24. huggmeister

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    Hi,
    I will get this info tonight. thank you
     
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  25. Patfont13

    Patfont13
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    I am having the same problem, but I am a little confused by what you said here so just trying to clarify. I had a few problems, first, the stove was overheating and blowing the fuse. I replaced the fuse and concluded that the combustion fan needed to be replaced. As soon as I replaced the combustion fan and turned on the stove to test, the combustion fan turned right on. I disconnected the proof of fire wire from the thermodisc and turned the stove on again. Again, the combustion fan turned right on. Does this conclude that the proof of fire thermodisc is not the problem? What next?
     

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