Buck 91 Bay Insert

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NextEndeavor

Burning Hunk
Jan 16, 2011
248
Southern Iowa
A friend of ours had this Buck Model 91 Bay insert, pictured. I know little about catalytic stoves (except what I've read here). So I have some questions. The house they bought has been empty a couple or more years but in perfect condition and well kept. I suggested they have a chimney sweep inspect the system before trying it out, which they did. The fella advised them to get a fireplace grate (?!). Right away I've got to question the guy, but again, I know nothing about this type stove. Well, when I went over there today, sure enough they tried the grate ..... can't even really load wood in it due to height problems. Anyway I'll assume the wood should be placed directly on the bottom of the stove like my Lopi. That's question #1. I've been told the reason is because you'd get too much air to the wood when elevated.
I've read the owners manual and it doesn't seem that much different than the way I light mine with the bypass damper open except that the temp needs to hit at least 700 before closing the bypass to route it through the cat (I don't have a cat, just secondaries). That's question #2 - just close bypass after 700 degrees? The book says to expect temps over 1,000 when the cat is fired off good. I see a plate in the inside top of the stove with four bolts holding it up there. Question #3: Is this how to get to the cat? Should I drop this down and check things out? What do I look for? Question #4: How do you clean the cat? Think I've read somewhere that a an air hose can damage it. Hopefully removing the plate will let me put a light and mirror up there to look into the chimney for some piece of mind.
So, I'm planning to take them some of my trusted/seasoned wood and get them going for a few evening fires. I'll use my favorite "torch" method to get the first one going and recommend the Supercedars route for these folks as they get into the program. Their Buck stove looks to be built very well and it's in a large living area suited perfectly for a wood stove. The one fire they tried last week didn't pan out too well (likely wet wood and no experience)
Just thought of another question. I see no firebrick in this thing. Are they missing or does it just not run on the "insulated box" principle to raise the inside temps?
Thanks in advance for the advice.
 

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Usually you close the bypass around 500 from a cool start. My stove is almost just like the buck 91 and it works for me, the 1000f your talking about is once the cat is leveled off and it should be way higher than that with good wood, more in the 1500f range with a full load of oak. It will climb from 500 to 1000 if you have good dry or dryish wood, climb to say 1600F if you have a full load of oak then after say 4-5 hours be around 1100 or 1200. Search buck91 there are several threads right now from a few owners with them this season.
 
A friend of ours had this Buck Model 91 Bay insert, pictured. I know little about catalytic stoves (except what I've read here). So I have some questions. The house they bought has been empty a couple or more years but in perfect condition and well kept. I suggested they have a chimney sweep inspect the system before trying it out, which they did. The fella advised them to get a fireplace grate (?!). Right away I've got to question the guy, but again, I know nothing about this type stove. Well, when I went over there today, sure enough they tried the grate ..... can't even really load wood in it due to height problems. Anyway I'll assume the wood should be placed directly on the bottom of the stove like my Lopi. That's question #1. I can't imagine he can get any wood at all hardly in there with a grate. It has a very deep and wide firebox but very low as well. I can usually only get a load about 2 splits high most of the time. I don't think a grate is recommended for any of the newer woodstoves. Just build the fire right on the floor of the stove. I've been told the reason is because you'd get too much air to the wood when elevated. I've read the owners manual and it doesn't seem that much different than the way I light mine with the bypass damper open except that the temp needs to hit at least 700 before closing the bypass to route it through the cat (I don't have a cat, just secondaries). That's question #2 - just close bypass after 700 degrees? I have had good luck closing the bypass at 500. Always fires off and starts to climb. Like clemson said, with a good load of dry wood it will climb to 1500 or so and stay there for a couple or 3 hours in my case and level off in the 9-1100 range for a bunch of hours and then drop down when it starts to go to the coal stage but still stay in the 5-600 range for a long time still. I get 12 hour burns without too much trouble if I do a full load. The book says to expect temps over 1,000 when the cat is fired off good. I see a plate in the inside top of the stove with four bolts holding it up there. Question #3: Is this how to get to the cat? Should I drop this down and check things out? What do I look for? Yea, the four nuts you see after you take the flame diverter plate off is the braket holding the cats (3). It's a real PITA if you ask me compared to what I read about other stove and cat maintenance. Anyway, thats how you get to them. Question #4: How do you clean the cat? Think I've read somewhere that a an air hose can damage it. I've only had mine out once and just used a paintbrush to knock off the loose ash etc. I've read you can use a vacuum with a soft brush attachment as well. Also read to avoid compressed air. They get very fragile with use so be careful. You can do a little research and find threads here on more extensive cat cleaning and I believe the cat manufacturers have info on their web sites. Hopefully removing the plate will let me put a light and mirror up there to look into the chimney for some piece of mind. You will be better off looking up through the bypass plate with it open if you want to try to look up the chimney. The cats sit in front of the bypass and you wouldn't be able to see aything above them. So, I'm planning to take them some of my trusted/seasoned wood and get them going for a few evening fires. I'll use my favorite "torch" method to get the first one going and recommend the Supercedars route for these folks as they get into the program. Their Buck stove looks to be built very well and it's in a large living area suited perfectly for a wood stove. The one fire they tried last week didn't pan out too well (likely wet wood and no experience) Just thought of another question. I see no firebrick in this thing. Are they missing or does it just not run on the "insulated box" principle to raise the inside temps?
I'm pretty sure they come with firebrick. In any event, mine has firebrick in it.

This is my replacement for a 70's vintage smoke dragon and the heat output per load of wood is far and away better than what I had. I'm into my 3rd winter with mine and feel like I know it pretty well now. I'm very pleased with it and as soon as I installed a SS liner it was like night and day with how this big boy operated. Good luck, let us know if you have any other questions and get your buddy on this site if he really wants to use that thing to heat his house. There aren't that many of us on here who own the 91's but seem most are very happy with them. I know I am.
 
(broken link removed to http://www.buckstove.com/manuals.html)

I don't think I would call that guy back. Is the chimney lined?
 
Your friends stumbled into a great heater in the 91. :)
I see a plate in the inside top of the stove with four bolts holding it up there. Question #3: Is this how to get to the cat? Should I drop this down and check things out? What do I look for? Question #4: How do you clean the cat? Think I've read somewhere that a an air hose can damage it. Hopefully removing the plate will let me put a light and mirror up there to look into the chimney for some piece of mind.
So, I'm planning to take them some of my trusted/seasoned wood and get them going for a few evening fires. I'll use my favorite "torch" method to get the first one going and recommend the Supercedars route for these folks as they get into the program. Their Buck stove looks to be built very well and it's in a large living area suited perfectly for a wood stove. The one fire they tried last week didn't pan out too well (likely wet wood and no experience)
Just thought of another question. I see no firebrick in this thing.
Mine has bricks, but maybe the older ones didn't...I doubt that, though. The plate you see is the lower heat shield, protecting the combustor from direct flame contact (flame impingement.) With it removed (no mean feat) you can see the combustor, and you can see up the flue. It's a bit tight in there, or you could use a mirror. They replaced the bolts holding the shield on earlier models with posts and cotter pins; The bolts can be problematic, saw a thread about that a while back. The guy had to drill out the bolts, I think. If you soak them for a day or two with a penetrant, you might have better luck.
If the combustor appears in good condition, you might be able to blow any ash out gently with some canned air. No compressed air, as you can blow the catalyst right off of the ceramic substrate! !!! If the combustor doesn't work, you can try simmering it out in a vinegar/water solution before spending almost $300 on a new one. If you remove the combustor, you need a new interam gasket and cat housing-to-stove gasket.
If they can't get dry wood, they might as well just give up and do complete maintenance; The stove won't run for crap. :(

(broken link removed to http://www.condar.com/combustorcleaningmanual.pdf)

(broken link removed to http://www.buckstove.com/manuals.html)
I don't think I would call that guy back. Is the chimney lined?
The guy may know how to sweep (or not) but he doesn't seem to know much about stoves. Many manuals I've looked at specifically say not to elevate the wood with a grate, etc. The Buck 91 manual is no exception. RIght, NE, the grate can result in overfiring the stove.
I'm pretty sure they come with firebrick. In any event, mine has firebrick in it.....as soon as I installed a SS liner it was like night and day with how this big boy operated. Good luck, let us know if you have any other questions and get your buddy on this site if he really wants to use that thing to heat his house.
Hopefully, they have an 8" stainless liner all the way to the top of the masonry chimney. That will be safer, and give the best performance as WoodpileOCD says.

Until they get up to speed with the stove, the main thing is not to load it full of small wood that will gas off all at once and overheat the combustor. Manual states the 1400-1600 is a good high-end range. They don't want to see 1800 for any length of time. The other thing I do is to burn a small load of a few splits to get the stove up to temp, then put in my full load. If you put a full load in and burn it hard to get the temp up to 700-900 before closing the bypass, as they suggest in the manual, you may have too much of the load off-gassing at that point and your cat can go to excessive temps.

I would encourage your friends to read the manual thoroughly. Lots of good info. Here are a couple threads I started when I put a Buck 91 in at my MIL's house a couple of months back. My experiences might help them shorten the learning curve. Once they know the stove, I'm sure it will perform well for them. :cool:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/the-buck-stops-here-91-bay-heater-install-under-way.92228/

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...unning-advice-tricks-and-tips-welcome.100464/
 
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