Building department does not approve !

[Jake86]

Feel like a scofflaw! Had my stove professionally installed hopefully avoiding something like this. Paid $100. for the permit. Told by the installation company they had over 70 approved installations in my town. So I figured a Harman platinum dealer with their experience would take good care of me. Their installation looked ok to me, but what do I k know? The building inspector did not approve the installation and that's it.
I had an old wood stove replaced by a Castle Serenity pellet stove. The installer ran a three inch pipe with a bottom T from my new pellet stove to my six inch old wood stove pipe stove pipe with an adapter (3" to 6") with the six inch through the brick wall and terminated at the top of my chimney. The inspector said the three inch should go all the way to the top. The inspector said a 3" to 6" stove pipe is a no, no. Now I'm looking at an expensive fix. Oh well, it's only paper! What say you?

 

[greg13]

Feel like a scofflaw! Had my stove professionally installed hopefully avoiding something like this. Paid $100. for the permit. Told by the installation company they had over 70 approved installations in my town. So I figured a Harman platinum dealer with their experience would take good care of me. Their installation looked ok to me, but what do I k know? The building inspector did not approve the installation and that's it.
I had an old wood stove replaced by a Castle Serenity pellet stove. The installer ran a three inch pipe with a bottom T from my new pellet stove to my six inch old wood stove pipe stove pipe with an adapter (3" to 6") with the six inch through the brick wall and terminated at the top of my chimney. The inspector said the three inch should go all the way to the top. The inspector said a 3" to 6" stove pipe is a no, no. Now I'm looking at an expensive fix. Oh well, it's only paper! What say you?

I would take the matter up with the installer first, If you get no where with them take it up with your lawyer.They should know the codes, If code does allow for a 3-6" jump again get the lawyer involved.

 

[sparklow]

3" pellet pipe to an approved 6" class A chimney in good shape is approved by your stove's manufacturer. This is the argument I'd use with local building officials.

 

[alternativeheat]

Feel like a scofflaw! Had my stove professionally installed hopefully avoiding something like this. Paid $100. for the permit. Told by the installation company they had over 70 approved installations in my town. So I figured a Harman platinum dealer with their experience would take good care of me. Their installation looked ok to me, but what do I k know? The building inspector did not approve the installation and that's it.
I had an old wood stove replaced by a Castle Serenity pellet stove. The installer ran a three inch pipe with a bottom T from my new pellet stove to my six inch old wood stove pipe stove pipe with an adapter (3" to 6") with the six inch through the brick wall and terminated at the top of my chimney. The inspector said the three inch should go all the way to the top. The inspector said a 3" to 6" stove pipe is a no, no. Now I'm looking at an expensive fix. Oh well, it's only paper! What say you?

3" to 6" is usually doable but it depends on what is written in your install sheet that came with the stove and also Local Codes..Is it safe ? Probably. Passing is another thing. If your install sheets don't show that configuration you're probably out of luck. But the install guys should know this stuff.

 

[rich2500]

The manual does show that configuration so I would question the inspector, if its a code issue then I would go back on the installer.

 

[Peterfield]

Feel like a scofflaw! Had my stove professionally installed hopefully avoiding something like this. Paid $100. for the permit. Told by the installation company they had over 70 approved installations in my town. So I figured a Harman platinum dealer with their experience would take good care of me. Their installation looked ok to me, but what do I k know? The building inspector did not approve the installation and that's it.
I had an old wood stove replaced by a Castle Serenity pellet stove. The installer ran a three inch pipe with a bottom T from my new pellet stove to my six inch old wood stove pipe stove pipe with an adapter (3" to 6") with the six inch through the brick wall and terminated at the top of my chimney. The inspector said the three inch should go all the way to the top. The inspector said a 3" to 6" stove pipe is a no, no. Now I'm looking at an expensive fix. Oh well, it's only paper! What say you?

First things first, ask nicely for a copy of the zoning ordinance so you can bring it to the installer. What you're really doing is saying, "show me in writing," but in a nice way. If it is in writing (don't bet the farm on that), then definitely take the paper to the dealer and ask for redress. It could have simply been an innocent mistake.

 

[Pete Zahria]

The inspector said a 3" to 6" stove pipe is a no, no

You have to understand, that many building inspectors "think" they know all of the codes...
Many times, they have believed it to be a certain way for so long,
that it is fact...
I think in this case he is wrong.
Because he says it's a "no-no"..
That is not true.
Our local dealer installs a lot of stoves,
and a large number of those are into existing LINED chimneys
with no issues.
Mine is that way.

Most locals go by the national code.

If your stove is UL approved, and in the setup manual it says you can,
then you can. It is highly unlikely that the local code supersedes the national code.
Or disagrees with the UL.

Not a legal opinion, just mine.

Dan

 

[Pete Zahria]

ask nicely for a copy of the zoning ordinance

That would be 'Codes and Ordinances'..

 

[BrotherBart]

First things first, ask nicely for a copy of the zoning ordinance so you can bring it to the installer. What you're really doing is saying, "show me in writing," but in a nice way. If it is in writing (don't bet the farm on that), then definitely take the paper to the dealer and ask for redress. It could have simply been an innocent mistake.

DIng ding ding. We have a winner. But what you are asking for is the building code, not zoning ordinance.

Worst case you run a four inch flex liner up the 6" pipe. Pretty cheap. The code official is blowing it if he isn't requiring at least 4" at that chimney height anyway. As I am sure your installation manual will confirm.

 

[CapeMayDan]

The installer should have submitted a drawing with the clearances and an example of the install. I would present a copy from the manual that shows the 3" to 6" adapter. Be nice as possible and approach him in a manner as to explain that the MFG instructions show the install.
Also have the installer call him to review the MFG instructions. Lean on the installer a little, had he submitted a drawing all this could have been avoided.

Dan

 

[Funnydirt14]

DIng ding ding. We have a winner. But what you are asking for is the building code, not zoning ordinance.

Worst case you run a four inch flex liner up the 6" pipe. Pretty cheap. The code official is blowing it if he isn't requiring at least 4" at that chimney height anyway. As I am sure your installation manual will confirm.

I agree, not an expensive fix and yes it should be 4" to top of chimney and possibly from the stove to the chimney.

 

[BrotherBart]

Like the poster above shows, the manufacturer approves adapting it into a Class A, pretty much like mine in the basement is, so it should be a moot point.

But asking the inspector for the stuff to show the vendor should do the trick. The inspector has probably never seen a pellet stove and is going on the wood stove thing that pipe needs to match flue collar size.

 

[Cory S]

Like the poster above shows, the manufacturer approves adapting it into a Class A, pretty much like mine in the basement is, so it should be a moot point.

But asking the inspector for the stuff to show the vendor should do the trick. The inspector has probably never seen a pellet stove and is going on the wood stove thing that pipe needs to match flue collar size.

standard wood stove/appliance code states you can join existing flue size, or ALWAYS increase size. As long as your going to larger diameter exhaust, it's looked at as being preferred.

 

[Bioburner]

A little knowledge can indeed be detriment. I have dealt with like kind issues in my summer occupation. Having a hard copy of the rules and regulations with highlighted related quotes can often resolve the issue. If you can't buffalo them with BS, dazzle them with brilliance.

 

[bcarton]

Sorry about the situation you're in. It's never good to spend a lot of money, get to supposed end of the process, and find out you still have more to go.

If it meets code, and you feel confident in the install, then obviously try to get it resolved without spending money on lawyers. Personally, if there are areas for improvement in the vent, I would consider improving the vent before spending money on a lawyer.

A few questions:

Are you going into a Class A chimney, or a masonry chimney?

If masonry:
Is it an inside or outside chimney? (Does the chimney go up through the middle of the house, or is against an outside wall / in an unheated garage)?
Is it lined with 6" stainless?
If lined, is it insulated?

The advantage of insulating the vent is that it will almost definitely have quite a bit of natural draft. If you lose power, there's a good chance that the warm vent will continue to pull smoke up the chimney and out of your house. If it's an outside chimney, unlined, you have a big column of smoke sitting in that 6" pipe that's just waiting for the chance to come back down into your house.

The disadvantage is that natural draft means you might have to adjust your blower speed to avoid having too much draft. The Serenity looks like it allows that function pretty easily, though.

 

[Jake86]

Sorry about the situation you're in. It's never good to spend a lot of money, get to supposed end of the process, and find out you still have more to go.

If it meets code, and you feel confident in the install, then obviously try to get it resolved without spending money on lawyers. Personally, if there are areas for improvement in the vent, I would consider improving the vent before spending money on a lawyer.

A few questions:

Are you going into a Class A chimney, or a masonry chimney?

If masonry:
Is it an inside or outside chimney? (Does the chimney go up through the middle of the house, or is against an outside wall / in an unheated garage)?
Is it lined with 6" stainless?
If lined, is it insulated?

The advantage of insulating the vent is that it will almost definitely have quite a bit of natural draft. If you lose power, there's a good chance that the warm vent will continue to pull smoke up the chimney and out of your house. If it's an outside chimney, unlined, you have a big column of smoke sitting in that 6" pipe that's just waiting for the chance to come back down into your house.

The disadvantage is that natural draft means you might have to adjust your blower speed to avoid having too much draft. The Serenity looks like it allows that function pretty easily, though.

It's an inside chimney, middle of the house, masonry and lined with a six inch stainless liner. I believe it's not insulated The draft for the prior wood stove was excellent. The new pellet stove has been working fine right out of the box.

 

[Bioburner]

Not only a masonry chimney but a stainless lined one.
I wonder where my old planner and inspector went? I wasn't about to grease his palm.The one who got caught with his work computer filled with child porn and his wife was the Superintendent of the school.

 

[bcarton]

It's an inside chimney, middle of the house, masonry and lined with a six inch stainless liner. I believe it's not insulated The draft for the prior wood stove was excellent. The new pellet stove has been working fine right out of the box.

A lot of wood burners would LOVE to have that inside chimney, me included. One of the reasons I went with pellets is our chimney is in our unheated garage, was too small to fit a 6" liner and insulation without knocking out the old clay tiles. It never drafted worth a darn. The cost to re-do just the chimney was more than my pellet stove, insulated vent, and labor combined.

So yeah, get your hands on the code, and get your installer involved. Hopefully it's resolved with a couple of phone calls.

 

[Fairwind]

Building permits, Building Codes and Building Inspectors are best avoided if at all possible...

But if you want your mortgage holder and homeowners insurance company happy, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet..

 

[Pete Zahria]

Building permits, Building Codes and Building Inspectors are best avoided if at all possible...

Without question...

Dan

 

[BrotherBart]

I shudder to think what builders would get away with if it weren't for inspection requirements on new construction. Inspectors helped me get what I wanted done with two new houses when the builder was being an a-hole.

 

[alternativeheat]

The one who got caught with his work computer filled with child porn and his wife was the Superintendent of the school.

Sad it happened, good he was caught. Because, well I won't get into in the pellet forum but will just say this stuff is huge and growing world wide.

 

[Pete Zahria]

Inspectors helped me get what I wanted done with two new houses when the builder was being an a-hole.

Building inspectors and code officials can be a-holes as well......
that said,
Let's not paint either with too wide a brush.
As we have read here, so many times, a stove or pellet dealer has been a-hole-ish too.
But there are plenty of good ones in all of those professions..
A few can give the rest a bad name.

 

[rowerwet]

Our city inspector has his own ideas that are higher than the written code.

 

[BrotherBart]

My builder punched out the inspector. In the front yard. Lost his county building license and the house was finished under his daughter's license.

With my first house me and the builder were having a battle over redoing a screwed up paneling job. When the inspector came through he looked at it and said "You don't want to live with that. Do you?" I said no and right there in front of the builder the inspector put his boot through the paneling and sheetrock and walked out.