Building New House, want to use wood

[sheeshshe]

I would like to use wood heat as a primary heat source for our new house. I am thinking about a masonry heater, but I know they're expensive and big, however I am pretty sure I want one. I have been reading a little bit on the forums before joining as a member, and I saw that some of the soapstone woodstoves can be pretty efficient as well. My main concern is air quality. I've read that in masonry stoves, the air quality of the home is better than a typical woodstove because of how it burns. What about a soapstone woodstove? Is there any benefit at all with air quality with those? My guess is no, because it runs like a typical woodstove. We have health issues, so the masonry heater is attractive to me at the moment. Is there anything else you would recommend for me to look into as a heat source? The other thing is, if we go with the masonry heater, we wouldn't have the forced hot water boiler system installed (because we can't afford both), but instead we would use monitor heat as a back up in the event of us going away. Our house is going to be a 1650 square foot cape cod home. I thought about building a Rocket Mass Heater, but I was warned that it would be difficult to find an insurance company to cover us with one of those. Thankfully, we won't be breaking ground for another 6 weeks, so I have time to make decisions. however, my builder would probably like to be forewarned if he has to add extra support etc for a masonry heater

 

[jatoxico]

I was unaware of any air quality advantage with masonry vs. traditional stove so I'd like to hear more about that. As cool as masonry heaters are I can't imagine opting for one. The expense, loss of space and in your case, inability to have an alternate or back-up heat source would kill it for me not to mention the negative effect on resale down the road.

Advantage to soapstone as I'm sure you already figured out is the ability to store heat and release it over a longer period of time.

 

[begreen]

I just met a local contractor that installed a masonry heater in his 1200 sq ft home several years back. He loves it. Most of the time they only fire it once in the morning. I'll ask for the particulars and hope to get to see it this summer. Planned well and done right it should be considered an asset and not have a negative effect on resale. However, if financing this project it would be good to talk with the bank. They may not accept a masonry heater as the sole source of heat.

PS: A local house with a huge Russian fireplace just sold in 3 days here for the asking price. It didn't seem to affect the sale at all. Perhaps that is because we are rural and extended power outages are accepted as part of life here.

 

[jatoxico]

Planned well and done right it should be considered an asset and not have a negative effect on resale.
PS: A local house with a huge Russian fireplace just sold in 3 days here for the asking price. It didn't seem to affect the sale at all. Perhaps that is because we are rural and extended power outages are accepted as part of life here.

Most realtors around here don't even want nicely stacked and seasoned wood on the property and there are few people who would want a home that they would need to retro fit for central heating. If the OP is truly aware of what it's going to mean then more power to him but its one of the considerations.

If it cost prohibitive to have both then I'd go with a stove or possibly two. Save the room and put in a central heating system for backup and weekends away/vacations. But that's my life speaking.

 

[DickRussell]

I suppose you could expect this reply from me, but I can't help saying that on a new house build, especially in Maine, you should be thinking about building a superinsulated house before the matter of how to heat it. Put a tad more money into an excellent shell, with good windows, and it will be not only more comfortable all year round but much easier to heat. You still could have a wood stove as primary heat if you wish, with electric resistance heat as cheap to install backup, or perhaps one or two minisplit heat pumps, which would also give you AC in summer humidity or extended hot weather. You have one shot at getting the house right. Don't make this a missed opportunity.

 

[byQ]

I was unaware of any air quality advantage with masonry vs. traditional stove so I'd like to hear more about that.

The difference is in how each 'heats'. Both wood stoves and mass heaters (masonry heaters & rocket mass heaters) produce radiant and convection types of heat. But, wood stoves produce mostly convection type of heat and mass heaters produce mostly radiant type of heat. (And within wood stoves - steel produces highest convection heat/lowest radiant, cast iron in middle, and soapstone least convection/highest radiant).

Convection heat primarily transfers its' energy through heating the air. Radiant heat sends waves through the air (like the sun) that heat objects that are struck. Air moves. When heated warm air moves towards cold air air currents are produced. Thus convection type of heat can carry more dust around. But in some house plans wood stoves would be better.

Convection type of heat would be better in a house with lots of walls (air travels) - like an L-shaped rancher. Radiant type of heat does better in an open type of floor plan.

 

[begreen]

Most realtors around here don't even want nicely stacked and seasoned wood on the property and there are few people who would want a home that they would need to retro fit for central heating. If the OP is truly aware of what it's going to mean then more power to him but its one of the considerations.

If it cost prohibitive to have both then I'd go with a stove or possibly two. Save the room and put in a central heating system for backup and weekends away/vacations. But that's my life speaking.

Regional likes vary. I suspect the realty market in Long Island is quite different from it in Maine.

 

[byQ]

Also within the masonry heater community some things that are becoming more common,
* building in a heating coil into the masonry heater's firebox to heat water.
* building an open fireplace/masonry heater together. That is, on one side is a masonry heater and on the other side is an open fireplace. Somehow they are flued together. I guess this fulfills the buyer's need for an open fireplace but also burning efficiency.
* building a thing called an eco firebox. This ecobox concept is coming from builders in Austria. It appears to create a 3-4% higher efficiency in the burn.

An eco firebox is a way to deliver more air where needed in the firebox. This is done by having air passages in the firebox door and behind the firebrick core. Thus there are built in small gaps in the firebox so air can get all around the fire. These eco-box masonry heaters are the most efficient mass heaters.

 

[bfitz3]

If money weren't an issue, I'd go with the masonry stove. Otherwise, I'd focus more on making the rest of the house as perfect for me as possible. As a previous poster mentioned, put whatever it takes to make the house very tight and thermally efficient. A friend built a 1500 ft house on Lake Michigan with framing that eliminates thermal bridging, triple pane windows, etc. They can keep the house comfy in the dead of winter with hefty winds off the lake using one of Hearthstone's smallest stoves.

 

[sheeshshe]

The masonry stove we are looking at, won't actually take up too much space. it heats up to 2600 square feet and it takes up a 3' x 4' space. in my opinion, that isn't unreasonable space wise. it is the Empire masonry 5 channel kit. the core costs $4900 plus another $1000 for a covering that I can affix stones to and to get it here. if I want an oven, another $900. so $6000 plus chimney/supports and labor costs. I will do the decoration myself. however, we can't afford both the stove and a regular heating system, hence looking at a space heater/monitor heat as backup.

I am going to look up some of the stuff that was mentioned in the replies. thank you

 

[sheeshshe]

I am very interested in the heat pump. Would that make an OK backup to a masonry heater if we chose to go with one?

 

[begreen]

The masonry stove we are looking at, won't actually take up too much space. it heats up to 2600 square feet and it takes up a 3' x 4' space. in my opinion, that isn't unreasonable space wise. it is the Empire masonry 5 channel kit. the core costs $4900 plus another $1000 for a covering that I can affix stones to and to get it here. if I want an oven, another $900. so $6000 plus chimney/supports and labor costs. I will do the decoration myself. however, we can't afford both the stove and a regular heating system, hence looking at a space heater/monitor heat as backup.

I am going to look up some of the stuff that was mentioned in the replies. thank you

The unit I mentioned locally is an Envirotech Empire design. I will visit the owner in the fall when I can see it running. He loves it.
http://www.envirotechfireplaces.com/

 

[begreen]

I am very interested in the heat pump. Would that make an OK backup to a masonry heater if we chose to go with one?

In Maine you would probably have to go with mini-splits to get enough heating at zero degree temps. If the house is tight and well insulated, simple electric baseboard heating would suffice.

 

[Prof]

We just put the finishing touches on a masonry heater (https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/masonry-heater-build-is-underway.154398/). Our house is about the same size and design as the one you are planning. Masonry heaters aren't cheap, but they can be built for under 10K. This is our designer's website: http://www.stovemaster.com/html_en/faq.html He has an article about things to consider when building a heater, including how to do one on a budget. We saved a ton using a local mason and doing some of the work ourselves. The first thing I'd think you'd have to consider is that a heater really needs its own foundation. Another thing to think about is the basement--the heater won't heat the basement. You wouldn't need much heat in the basement if it is mostly underground and well insulated, but the last thing you'd want is frozen pipes. I put a wood stove in the basement. In my opinion, you can never have too many places to burn wood

I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have about my heater project.

 

[georgepds]

For a new home thinnk insulation and air tightness first

You'll find good advice on greenbuildingadvisors.com

 

[DickRussell]

For a new home thinnk insulation and air tightness first

You'll find good advice on greenbuildingadvisors.com

Agreed on GBA as a good resource for this. A quick search on www.greenbuildingadvisor.com using the search string "pretty good house" turns up this one, among others: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/guest-blogs/pretty-good-house

 

[jatoxico]

The difference is in how each 'heats'.

I was thinking it had to do with air quality in the sense of particulates etc. I understand that masonry heaters deliver a nice even heat, you do always have be there to feed them though.

 

[begreen]

The way it was described to me, the operation is pretty simple. Create a kindling bed, then criss-cross splits on top. Ignite and run wide open until the splits start to get ashen. Turn down about 50% and let it burn out. I could get used to doing this once a day.

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts and questions . . .

Out of curiosity where are you in Maine . . . not that it makes a huge difference in my answers . . . but in terms of resale value it may matter as to whether you go with a masonry heater or a woodstove. I suspect where I live for example that while a masonry heater would be quite desirable, I would not really get much of a return on my investment when I sell due to the general lower prices of homes in the area.

It seems as though you are well aware of the potential drawbacks to masonry stoves -- the size, expense and building foundation requirements. There is one other small negative -- especially if you did not have a back up heating source -- they really are better at 24/7 winter heating. A friend of mine has one which he loves and says is the bee's knees in the winter, but he also admits that he cannot really run it in the early Fall and late Spring without it overheating the home.

Efficiency . . . you mention efficiency . . . if you are looking at efficient stoves and the most clean burning stoves I would say this debate would not so much be one of masonry heater vs. soapstone stove as it would be cat stove vs. masonry heater. If you're talking efficiency in terms of holding the heat like a heat sink I would guess that soapstone does a better job vs. steel and cast iron, but a masonry heater with all of that mass would have the edge.

Air quality . . . inside or outside? I suspect the air quality of most modern woodstoves are comparable to a masonry stove . . . whether that stove be a secondary burner or catalytic burner. Inside quality may potentially differ. I know woodstoves do tend to dry out the air a bit more and my wife says there is more dust in the home with a woodstove . . . whether that would be lessened with a masonry stove . . . I am not sure.

Back up heat . . . it's a good idea to have some sort of back up heat . . . a) for resale value, b) for when you get sick and just don't have the energy to load the stove/heater, c) for those times when you may wish to get away for a weekend or week and don't want to bother a friend to load the stove/heater and d) many insurance carriers will require you to have a primary (non-wood) heat source.

Insulate. It's been mentioned a few times, but worth mentioning again. If I was to build a home the one thing I would put my money into is insulating the home to make it as efficient as possible. I don't care if a person heats with wood, pellets, coal, oil or gas -- there's always a cost to obtaining the fuel and it just makes more sense to retain as much heat as you can in a home.