Bumble Bee with the boiler

[JP11]

Of course.. with a 60kw boiler.. a bumble bee pump from taco wouldn't keep up. Boiler to storage is a 0011.

BUT.. I had a 00R feeding from storage to my 'injection loop' on the hot leg of the boiler.

I just installed the bumble bee. I had two zones calling, and it was using 18 watts vs the 79 on the low setting for the 00R.

Less stirring of my tanks. It's installed with sensors, set it up for 30 degree delta T.

Pretty cool to watch it cycle. it gets REALLY quiet when it's down to less than 20watts.

Since I've made 0kw in power due to solar panels under 4 feet of snow.. I guess the savings will help.



JP

 

[goosegunner]

Sounds cool, can you post a drawing of how it its set up?

gg

 

[JP11]

Not sure what you mean. The circ took the place of the one I had in there before.

In a nutshell. There is a relay that runs off an aqua stat. IF the boiler storage tanks are above 135.. and any zone calls for heat, The bumble bee starts and runs to maintain a 30 degree delta T. two small probes I stuck between the pipes an insulation.

If the wood boiler tanks fall below 135.. the relay instead lets the oil boiler fire up as it did before I installed the Vigas.

JP

 

[goosegunner]

Ok I was confused, I thought you were using it for return temp protection to effect the Boiler output temp.
gg

 

[JP11]

No, it's just being used to supply my injection loop.

Storage tanks feed to the out leg of the old oil boiler. Oil boiler doesn't really even get any heat to it this way.

Still the regular Danfoss, and BIG pump to move 25gpm from vigas to storage.

JP

 

[maple1]

25 gpm - that's a lot of pumping. The 15-58 on low on the loading unit does mine OK, not sure what GPM it's doing.

 

[JP11]

25gpmx8.3lbx60minx20deltaT.. 249000 just about what my boiler is rated.



I've seen 25 to 28 delta T when it's really roaring on a load of red oak.

JP

 

[JP11]

So, being so enamored with low noise, and low power consumption...

I have ONE more bumble bee to put in. I'm going to try it on the radiant loop. I think a nice 20degree delta T setting would work good. Worst case.. it pumps at 42 watts on high vs 79 of the 00R low mode.

SO.. I get looking online for an ECM pump for boiler to storage. I finally find the one I need. Grundfos Magna 3. Probably a 32-60 but maybe a 32-100. Matches up similar to my 0011 Taco.

AHEM 650 bucks!! I guess I'll let that 0011 run! Vigas turns it off and on anyway.

JP

 

[kuribo]

maybe the new Taco Viridian VT2218 will work for you. They should be available everywhere in Spring.

 

[JP11]

Hadn't heard of that model. I see it's similar to the bumble bee.. but as of now, no delta T mode I could see.
Some for sale on amazon now.

JP

 

[BoiledOver]

The 15-58 on low on the loading unit does mine OK, not sure what GPM it's doing.

This storage loop with the same pump does 5-6 gpm on low speed when the Danfoss is up to temp. The circuit is 1" copper, 26' in each direction, air eliminator, strainer and 16 fittings. Medium speed around 8, and high flows right about 10 gpm.

 

[JP11]

Similar numbers. Mine is 1.25 piping.

18 watts is running 5 to 6 gpm. Doing the math on 30 delta T.. It's about 100k.. all the house needs. So I've replaced 79watts with 18.

JP

 

[kuribo]

Hadn't heard of that model. I see it's similar to the bumble bee.. but as of now, no delta T mode I could see.
Some for sale on amazon now.

JP

It has a delta t mode....

 

[JP11]

OK, thanks. they did a really poor job of promoting it on the website then. Prices weren't too bad on that one.

JP

 

[kuribo]

By all accounts it is a really nice pump at a very attractive price.

 

[JP11]

I was pretty disappointed in the directions. Now granted.. I'm a homeowner. But there's four wires for sensors. two per.

There's 3 pins to connect wires to. Wires go 1 and 2 for supply. 2 and 3 for return.

OK.. which is which? No labels on the connector, no labels on the pump.

I had to leave one wire off, and then read the error code to see which was what.

With two buttons.. setting anything was a bit of a challenge. you cycle thru using one button, then push both to 'set' but you'd just as likely not push both buttons exactly at the same time. Took me several tries.

JP

 

[Clarkbug]

JP, do you just have your storage circ (now the bumblebee) tied in to the oil boiler outlet using closely spaced tees?

 

[JP11]

yes. close spaced Ts on the 'out' leg of the oil boiler.

 

[Clarkbug]

Thanks! I need to mod my setup, and was thinking about putting in a variable speed circ, but was curious how it would perform in that application. Sounds like you are using it that way, and are having good results!

Is your house zoned with circs or zone valves? (or from your sig, are you all radiant loads?)

 

[JP11]

5 radiant zones, plus one DHW.

3 radiant circs. so two are doing double duty using zone valves.
separate circ for the DHW.

I'm going to eventually change them all out for bumble bees I think. I LOVE the quietness of them.

Wish my plumber that built the house was more into high tech. Even the guys I had do the wood boiler hadn't heard of the bumble bee. They had done just a few jobs with big ECM pumps and zone valves.

JP

 

[maple1]

The guys at the p, h & e supply house I mostly used a couple years ago didn't even know what an Alpha was.

The other one I used for odd bits that the first one didn't have knew, but had to order one in.

 

[Karl_northwind]

2 things on the Bumblebee: zip tie the sensor connector into the circulator. it doesn't latch, and if the wire gets bumped it can fall out. ask me how I know. and the error mode in this case is flash (helpful in a boiler room where no-one is) and to NOT RUN which can mean a freeze up. seems like a good safe mode would be to run in speed 2, and flash. or something. anything besides not running.
and thing 2: the instructions and programming are a minor nightmare. I've installed a handful of them and still dread the setup. I'll be trying the new one sometime and will report back.
k

 

[ewdudley]

2 things on the Bumblebee: zip tie the sensor connector into the circulator. it doesn't latch, and if the wire gets bumped it can fall out. ask me how I know. and the error mode in this case is flash (helpful in a boiler room where no-one is) and to NOT RUN which can mean a freeze up. seems like a good safe mode would be to run in speed 2, and flash. or something. anything besides not running.
and thing 2: the instructions and programming are a minor nightmare. I've installed a handful of them and still dread the setup. I'll be trying the new one sometime and will report back.
k

Need to keep in mind that Bumblebee is an unnecessary complication in many cases. Where goal is to change flow according to zone valves opening and closing it is true the HEC-2 can adjust flow according to temperature, but a deltaP pump will do the job as well or better without the need for temperature sensors and related failure modes.