Burn pot full of ash in my 55-TRPEP

[Eric Bommer]

I am in my 2rd year with this stove and I have yet to get it working right. My main issue is the burn pot will fill up with ash after 6 hr to 12 hr and greatly restricting air flow. Last year I worked with Englander tech support with no real solution. I can tell after 2 to 3 hours the flame starts to get a little lazy. Maybe I am wrong but I would thing I could get a full day without the burn pot over flowing with ash. The flame starts very active and even has a little blue in it.

Last year we replaced the combustion motor and control board.

This year I have replaced the gaskets in the door, windows, burn pot, ash pan, and combustion motor. Cleaned the chimney and brushed and vacuumed every orifice I can find in the stove. Still have this same issue. Every thing seems tight and I can't find any air leaks with a lighter.

I am currently burning Magic Spark pellets(same issue with all other pellets I have tried). I also store 30 days of pellets next to the stove to keep them dry. I am getting a ton of heat (The stove will switch to high fan occasionally) but I need to empty the ash pot every morning before I leave for work.

Current I am set on 1-4-1 but I have set the unit as high as 1-9-1 with no improvement in getting the ash out. Also I am using a Selkirk DT 4 inch stove pipe horizontal install, about 5 feet vertical and 4 feet horizontal. I am starting to think its something in my installation, the stove seems fine but I am just not getting enough air flow to keep the ash out.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[slvrblkk]

Does your burn pot sit completely flush in it's cradle? What I mean is when you place the pot in its cradle is there any "teetering" of the pot. Just checking to see if all the air is coming up through the pot and not between the edges of the pot and the cradle. Sometime extra welding slag keep the pot from being flush.

You said this was happening since you got the stove? Just double checking. You do have a longer run of horizontal but might be ok since you are using 4". When was the last time the stove was FULLY cleaned? That is take it outside, run compressed air through all nooks and crannies?

 

[Eric Bommer]

I pretty sure it does. The ash that does make it out of the burn pot seem to sit around it pretty uniform, but that could definitely be something I could of over looked. When I get home from work I will double check.

Thanks

 

[jrsdws]

Have you found and cleaned the entire exhaust path? I don't know that model's path for sure, but most Englanders have holes up above the flame and right below the heat exchanger. These holes are vertical holes that lead down the rear of your back fire wall. These holes can accumulate a lot of ash around them, restricting the exhaust air path. There should also be some kind of cleanouts to this area behind the back firewall. Find them and vacuum behind there.

 

[hwdemers]

have you tested the voltage at the combustion blower? i have seen faulty control board that cause this problem

 

[hwdemers]

have you tested the voltage at the combustion blower? i have seen faulty control board that cause this problem

just re read your post and saw that you also replaced the control board
remove the out side air pipe and see what happens, they can be too restrictive sometimes(they have that screen on the end)

 

[imacman]

Can you describe the exhaust install little clearer? It sounded like the EVL may be a little too high, but I wasn't sure of the exact layout.

 

[sculptor]

I have a different Englander. I don't know if this applies to yours. How is your hopper lid? Mine became loose over time and a tightening of the latch bolt was needed to make it nice and tight when latching. I hope you solve it.

 

[Eric Bommer]

Have you found and cleaned the entire exhaust path? I don't know that model's path for sure, but most Englanders have holes up above the flame and right below the heat exchanger. These holes are vertical holes that lead down the rear of your back fire wall. These holes can accumulate a lot of ash around them, restricting the exhaust air path. There should also be some kind of cleanouts to this area behind the back firewall. Find them and vacuum behind there.

There are about 5 holes. I have an 18"x1" brush that I have went though it with and also banged on it with a 20oz hammer to knock any thing down. I then vacuumed out the the 2 clean out areas.

 

[Eric Bommer]

Can you describe the exhaust install little clearer? It sounded like the EVL may be a little too high, but I wasn't sure of the exact layout.

I come out of the back of the stove, its 3 inches and convert to a 4 inch to a "T" with a clean out. Then it rises 5 feet to a 90 elbow then out of the elbow I go 4 feet horizontal to the out side. It then has an end cap to help separate the fresh air from the exhaust.

Curious what is EVL?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Please post pictures of your burn pot (cold out of the stove so we can see it from a number of different angles). Then pictures of the cradle it sits in after having cleaned it with a straight edge along the inside edges of all four sides.

Was that a new stove when you installed it?

EVL equivalent vent length.

1 foot horizontal - 1 EVL
1 foot vertical - 0.5 EVL
90 degree turn (a Tee is one) = 5 EVL when in a vertical configuration
45 degree turn = 2.5 or 3.0 EVL when in a vertical configuration


All horizontal runs need a minimum of 1/4" per foot rise

EVL totals above 15 may call for 4" venting instead of 3"

Your EVL is fine but if there isn't a rise in the horizontal section it will cause problems.

 

[Eric Bommer]

Please post pictures of your burn pot (cold out of the stove so we can see it from a number of different angles). Then pictures of the cradle it sits in after having cleaned it with a straight edge along the inside edges of all four sides.

Was that a new stove when you installed it?

EVL equivalent vent length.

1 foot horizontal - 1 EVL
1 foot vertical - 0.5 EVL
90 degree turn (a Tee is one) = 5 EVL when in a vertical configuration
45 degree turn = 2.5 or 3.0 EVL when in a vertical configuration


All horizontal runs need a minimum of 1/4" per foot rise

EVL totals above 15 may call for 4" venting instead of 3"

Your EVL is fine but if there isn't a rise in the horizontal section it will cause problems.

With the straight edge the burn pot is pretty flat but the back left corner of the cradle look about a 1/16" of inch low. Do you think with how the burn pot sits in there that would be an issue. The burn pot does rock if I push on the back left corner.

I also included an inside the house view of the stove pipe. I will need to put a level on the horizontal section to verify the 1/4" per foot. I hired the pipe install so I would assume so/hope.

And yes it is a re-furbished stove, but it did come with the manufactures warranty.

 

[slvrblkk]

Check and make sure your ash pan is sitting flush...there looks to be a gap in the middle where the latch is.....

Also with the door closed, check the gap at the bottom of the door....looking at the pic it almost looks as though the stove body itself might be bowed in.....right where there looks like a gap in the ash pan

Can you put a longer straight edge on the stove body where the door gasket would sit on the bottom of the door..

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Do you by any chance have some lyterm sheet or a thin flat stove window gasket. I'd make a gasket up to go around the burn pot on the bottom of the burn pot lip or on the cradle, the burn pot should provide enough weight to seal things. Something about 1/16" or so.

Also make certain your ash pan is as slvrblkk is saying.

FYI it only takes a little air bypass to cause all kinds of burn issues.

I'd do a good cleaning of the vent system as well as the stove even going as far as using the leaf blower when I was done thumping on the back wall of the firebox and other stove torture routines using brushes and vacuums.

 

[Eric Bommer]

Check and make sure your ash pan is sitting flush...there looks to be a gap in the middle where the latch is.....

Also with the door closed, check the gap at the bottom of the door....looking at the pic it almost looks as though the stove body itself might be bowed in.....right where there looks like a gap in the ash pan

Can you put a longer straight edge on the stove body where the door gasket would sit on the bottom of the door..

Checked the door frame with a straight edge and everything seems fine. Check gap with a piece of paper very tight.

You do have me a little concerned about the cradle though. When I press on the back left corner the opposite edge moves up about an 1/8 inch. Pressing the other other 3 corners only very make minor movements. Do I worry about the 1/8", is the mating of the burn pot to the cradle supposed to be perfect.

Is there any thing I can do to either test this or fix this(without replacing everything). I still have gasket material from the ash pan could I put that around the burn pot to see if that fixes it?

 

[slvrblkk]

I can tell you that my burn pot sits flush...no teetering what so ever.....And yes, you can try and put the gasket on...I think I would put it on the cradle though and not on the pot itself.

Is the ash pan bowed or is it just an optical illusion?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Checked the door frame with a straight edge and everything seems fine. Check gap with a piece of paper very tight.

You do have me a little concerned about the cradle though. When I press on the back left corner the opposite edge moves up about an 1/8 inch. Pressing the other other 3 corners only very make minor movements. Do I worry about the 1/8", is the mating of the burn pot to the cradle supposed to be perfect.

Is there any thing I can do to either test this or fix this(without replacing everything). I still have gasket material from the ash pan could I put that around the burn pot to see if that fixes it?

It may prevent the igniter from starting the stove if it is too thick.

Worth a try, but please clean the stove before testing a bad burn causes a lot of crap that would normally exit the stove and vent to get deposited in the both the stove and the vent.

And yes I know it is a pain to keep doing this.

 

[Eric Bommer]

I can tell you that my burn pot sits flush...no teetering what so ever.....And yes, you can try and put the gasket on...I think I would put it on the cradle though and not on the pot itself.

Is the ash pan bowed or is it just an optical illusion?

That all seems to sit flat with my 12" steel ruler, so I think its optical. I think the gasket material will be a great test, should help rule this out. Little disappointed with the tech support after all the calls and email last year I had with them, would of thought they would of had me check that and not just keep bumping up the fan speed to fix this issue.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Eric hopefully Mike will drop in and take look at the pictures and read the posts.

He was interested in several other threads of this nature.

 

[slvrblkk]

Like Smokey said....hopefully Mike sees this and checks things out too......

 

[Eric Bommer]

It may prevent the igniter from starting the stove if it is too thick.

Worth a try, but please clean the stove before testing a bad burn causes a lot of crap that would normally exit the stove and vent to get deposited in the both the stove and the vent.

And yes I know it is a pain to keep doing this.

I can also manually start the fire if the gasket is to high.

But I have done 2 end of year clean out this month(Including pulling the combustion motor(and replacing the gaskets) and brushing out in front and behind the combustion motor). Also brushed out the chimney on both cases. More them happy to clean it again a third time, but before I do I just want to have more ideas of what to look for in a clog. I really can't see from the heat ex-changer to the combustion motor but I have pushed a brush through and beat of the back plate of the heat ex-changer with a hammer and then vacuumed them out. But since you can't see the path 100% there seems to be no way to know for sure everything is out, but I have tried my best.

Is there a way to check the vacuum from the intake to see how much air I am pulling through with out a vacuum Gage.

 

[slvrblkk]

Has this been happening from day one?

Not sure about the vacuum gauge....maybe Mike would know......

 

[slvrblkk]

Out of curiosity, have you ever had the cradle out and confirmed that you do have a gasket between the cradle and back wall?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Build your gasket and give it a try.

I certainly can't look into your stoves passages from here to tell if it is clean or not the only thing that knows for certain how the entire air path is, is the fire, and it is saying, it sucketh out loud.

 

[Jason Knapp]

Checked the door frame with a straight edge and everything seems fine. Check gap with a piece of paper very tight.

You do have me a little concerned about the cradle though. When I press on the back left corner the opposite edge moves up about an 1/8 inch. Pressing the other other 3 corners only very make minor movements. Do I worry about the 1/8", is the mating of the burn pot to the cradle supposed to be perfect.

Is there any thing I can do to either test this or fix this(without replacing everything). I still have gasket material from the ash pan could I put that around the burn pot to see if that fixes it?

I had the same problem with my burn pot not sitting flush. I had to persuade ( beat with a hammer) the pot cradle until it was completely level. I also had some welding slag around the bottom of the burn pot.
I also brushed the stove thoroughly through every known hole the stove had. Needless to say, my stove never burned better!