Burning pellets on high or low

[littlesol]

I have a Quadra Fire Castile insert. Been burning it going on my 4th season. It is hooked to a simple on/off Lux Tstat. The past 3 seasons i have been letting the Tstat kick it on when it reaches its set low limit and go off when it reaches its high setting like a conventional furnace but it cycles a lot. I decided just a few days ago after reading a few posts here to keep it burning on low, it has 3 feed rates. The house definitely stays more comfortable on low with outside temps moderate, especially the rooms further away from stove. When the stove was cycling on and off set on high the ash was grittier. The glass cleaned with just plain windex and there was coarser chunks left in the burn pot after it shut down. With it on low and burning continuously i noticed the ash is very powdery and very light brown in color but there is minimal to no ash left in the burn pot. I went to clean the glass though with windex and now it wont come off. I cleaned the glass and vacuumed the stove out 2 days age so i started with a clean stove. My question is; Is it better with the continuous burn on low or the cycle on high? What is going on with the powdery ash and the soot sticking to the glass? I am aware that cycling wears out the igniter quicker.

P.S.- the pellets are Inferno Gold which seem to be the best i've had in 4 seasons. Good heat and not to big in size.

Thanks, Joe.

 

[Wilbur Feral]

Hi Littlesol. In my opinion, you are much better off with a long, low, near continuous burn than the cycling, for two reasons. First, the comfort is better, as you have noticed. I don't like the cooling off and heating up over 3 or 4 (or more degrees), and find it unsettling. The other reason is the strain on not just the ignitor, but the overall stove. Heating and cooling cause thermal expansion, which causes tiny flexing of the parts. Over time, my theory is that this loosens things a bit, causing more rattles and such.

I have my Santa Fe insert connected to our home automation system through a Nest thermostat, and I followed some instructions from forum member Two Braids that allowed me to bypass the manual Hi-Med-Lo switch and control that with relays (or back to manual if I ever wish to do so). This allows me to have the Nest control the stove for things like auto start in the morning, and ramping up and down between the three settings based on the need for room heat. But it still meant that the stove just shut down when it reached the target temp. I liked the idea of just running things on the low setting so much that I created routines within the automation system that allow it to run on low continuously, so long as it doesn't go above a certain temp. With that, I can keep things at a nice, even 70-71. But without it, it can cycle as much as 4 times in just a couple of hours, with a temp swing of 3-4 degrees.

As for the ash and glass, I am not finding a major problem. There is a bit more on the glass and maybe even a bit more "soot", as the fire is less intense. But some Rutland glass cleaner instead of Windex, and regular vacuuming (maybe 2x per week in shoulder season) take care of that.

I don 't know if any of that is helpful, but the continuous, low burn is by far my favorite.

 

[They Call Me Pete]

I've got my Hastings jumped out to run all the time but did go out and buy a programmable t-stat but haven't installed it. Thinking I like the constant level of heat as well instead of temp swings. The guy I bought my stove from said his tech told him better to run a t-stat on a level 4-5 than on a lower setting all the time. Cycling hast to take it's toll on the igniter i would think

 

[bostonfan49]

My M55 is hooked up to a Lux programmable t-stat and while I do run on hi-low at times, my problem is that if I wanted to shut off the stove with only the t-stat.....that won't work and the stove keeps running. So yeah, I go over to the stove and hit the power button. Is there a way to shut down the stove on high- low with a Lux P T-stat. My current procedure is that the t-stat turns the stove on at 5 am and heats up the downstairs to a toasty 73 (fan 3 and feed 1) then after 7am I turn the fan down to 2 and put the stove into hi-low and from 8am on the t-stat is set at 71.....
Thanks, Bill

 

[Cedarjunki]

I disconnected my tstat as well.. i noticed i am using less pellets having it run continuous on setting 3 out of 9 than is was on the stat with warmer outisde temps. And much more consistantly comfortable. Diff brand stove mind you. And i have been using my glass cooktop cleaner and works great. Much better than windex. Many people claim running pellet stoves on a tstat reduces pellet consumption but in my case not so much..

 

[haff99]

On my old lopi pioneer bay insert, if I ran on too low of a setting I would get a TON of black soot and crap on the window. If I ran higher that wouldn't happen. What used to happen with my stove is, it would feed the pellets too slow on a low setting, that would cause the flame to go out or nearly go out. Hence when the new pellets fell in they didn't ignite and burn as clean as fast as when it was feeding more pellets on a higher setting. A lot of time it they would smolder a bit before they ignited again. Sort of like it does on a start up. I used to get the real heavy black gunk on the window(though it was always easy to clean off). So see if that is happening to you, that may explain why you see the all that crap on the window. You probably aren't getting as clean a burn as you are on a higher setting. I never really noticed any ash difference.

On my new lopi AGP insert, it does a much better job feeding the pellets on low and it doesn't gunk up the window at all.

 

[Deezl Smoke]

To me, the powder ash and no chunks left in the pot sound good. That is how my stoves are and how most of the stoves that I know about in other;s houses are. The glass thing will need someone with more experience, but IMO, is normal. Windex is really a mild glass cleaner and works well for general cleaning. But in a flame heater situation, it is almost like glazing pottery. I dont know if I am allowed to link to youtube videos, so I'll just type a title for you to view a short video of using steel wool to clean glass windows. "How to use steel wool to clean fireplace window glass" I dont dare try to tell you how to do this as there are so many things that can go wrong. However I learned of the trick some 35 years ago at an auto repair facility. I have used it many times for removing various stains on glass. I have used auto wax along with the steel wool when needed as well. So if you do choose to use this trick, please confirm any details first, like the proper size and type of steel wool. Even have someone show you in their presence how to use it before you try it. But it does work when used properly and is very common in many areas.

I just did a very quick search of this site and found references to oven cleaners and scotch brite. So perhaps you can doa search here and see if any thing shows up that you wish to try.

 

[Tonyray]

I disconnected my tstat as well.. i noticed i am using less pellets having it run continuous on setting 3 out of 9 than is was on the stat with warmer outisde temps. And much more consistantly comfortable. Diff brand stove mind you. And i have been using my glass cooktop cleaner and works great. Much better than windex. Many people claim running pellet stoves on a tstat reduces pellet consumption but in my case not so much..

I also use a stove cooktop cleaner when I sometimes get those dark brown streaks on the glass.
usually comes from on/off shoulder season burning...
normally a standard glass cleaner does the trick..
btw: tried rubbing wet paper towel dipped in ash and it get's those brown stains off also..

 

[Harvey Schneider]

There is no ideal setting for pellet stoves. As the season changes, you will probably have to change your setup to accomodate the increase/decrease in heat demand. It's a juggling act to get the right combination of settings. You need the feed rate set high enough that the stove can overcome the losses in a reasonable time, but you don't want the stove shutting down as soon as it is up to temperature.
You description of the ash when you were running on high sounds like the ash was being blown out of the firepot before it was finished burning. That's not an efficient way to burn. On the other hand, I recently read an article that said that stoves burn more efficiently on higher settings. I also don't like to burn the stoves on very low settings because they produce more tar/creosote when the firepot temperatures are low. That is consistent with the article I referred to, creosote is unburned fuel.
As for the cycles being hard on the igniter, That depends on the stove. My Mt Vernon AE cycles a few times an hour and the igniter is on it's fourth year. In any case the igniters are cheap and easy to replace on both my stoves. The igniter for the Mt Vernon is about $30 and I got one for the 25-PDVC off of Ebay for $5.

 

[Tonyray]

There is no ideal setting for pellet stoves. As the season changes, you will probably have to change your setup to accomodate the increase/decrease in heat demand. It's a juggling act to get the right combination of settings. You need the feed rate set high enough that the stove can overcome the losses in a reasonable time, but you don't want the stove shutting down as soon as it is up to temperature.
You description of the ash when you were running on high sounds like the ash was being blown out of the firepot before it was finished burning. That's not an efficient way to burn. On the other hand, I recently read an article that said that stoves burn more efficiently on higher settings. I also don't like to burn the stoves on very low settings because they produce more tar/creosote when the firepot temperatures are low. That is consistent with the article I referred to, creosote is unburned fuel.
As for the cycles being hard on the igniter, That depends on the stove. My Mt Vernon AE cycles a few times an hour and the igniter is on it's fourth year. In any case the igniters are cheap and easy to replace on both my stoves. The igniter for the Mt Vernon is about $30 and I got one for the 25-PDVC off of Ebay for $5.

Harmans are around 70.00 on ebay.

 

[littlesol]

There is no ideal setting for pellet stoves. As the season changes, you will probably have to change your setup to accomodate the increase/decrease in heat demand. It's a juggling act to get the right combination of settings. You need the feed rate set high enough that the stove can overcome the losses in a reasonable time, but you don't want the stove shutting down as soon as it is up to temperature.
You description of the ash when you were running on high sounds like the ash was being blown out of the firepot before it was finished burning. That's not an efficient way to burn. On the other hand, I recently read an article that said that stoves burn more efficiently on higher settings. I also don't like to burn the stoves on very low settings because they produce more tar/creosote when the firepot temperatures are low. That is consistent with the article I referred to, creosote is unburned fuel.
As for the cycles being hard on the igniter, That depends on the stove. My Mt Vernon AE cycles a few times an hour and the igniter is on it's fourth year. In any case the igniters are cheap and easy to replace on both my stoves. The igniter for the Mt Vernon is about $30 and I got one for the 25-PDVC off of Ebay for $5.

This is my 4th season and the last 3 i have just let the Tstat do its thing. I bought a igniter 2 years ago contimplating this happening but havent used it yet. When the temps get colder outside as they did last year, constantly in the 20s and teens here in jersey, the stove didnt cyle that much to keep up.

Im thinking your right about the creosote on low on the glass. Wonder if it builds in the flue pipe as well. With burning on high there was only dust on the glass.

 

[littlesol]

Hi Littlesol. In my opinion, you are much better off with a long, low, near continuous burn than the cycling, for two reasons. First, the comfort is better, as you have noticed. I don't like the cooling off and heating up over 3 or 4 (or more degrees), and find it unsettling. The other reason is the strain on not just the ignitor, but the overall stove. Heating and cooling cause thermal expansion, which causes tiny flexing of the parts. Over time, my theory is that this loosens things a bit, causing more rattles and such.

I have my Santa Fe insert connected to our home automation system through a Nest thermostat, and I followed some instructions from forum member Two Braids that allowed me to bypass the manual Hi-Med-Lo switch and control that with relays (or back to manual if I ever wish to do so). This allows me to have the Nest control the stove for things like auto start in the morning, and ramping up and down between the three settings based on the need for room heat. But it still meant that the stove just shut down when it reached the target temp. I liked the idea of just running things on the low setting so much that I created routines within the automation system that allow it to run on low continuously, so long as it doesn't go above a certain temp. With that, I can keep things at a nice, even 70-71. But without it, it can cycle as much as 4 times in just a couple of hours, with a temp swing of 3-4 degrees.

As for the ash and glass, I am not finding a major problem. There is a bit more on the glass and maybe even a bit more "soot", as the fire is less intense. But some Rutland glass cleaner instead of Windex, and regular vacuuming (maybe 2x per week in shoulder season) take care of that.

I don 't know if any of that is helpful, but the continuous, low burn is by far my favorite.

Thanks for info. I was looking into different wifi tstats. That is Exactly what i want to achieve with my stove. I saw the post from Two Braids and the diagrams. Wondering how his set up goes around the speed switch on the stove? Does the switch need to be disconnected or jumped? Not sure if i mentioned but i have a Quadra fire Castile insert.

 

[littlesol]

There is no ideal setting for pellet stoves. As the season changes, you will probably have to change your setup to accomodate the increase/decrease in heat demand. It's a juggling act to get the right combination of settings. You need the feed rate set high enough that the stove can overcome the losses in a reasonable time, but you don't want the stove shutting down as soon as it is up to temperature.
You description of the ash when you were running on high sounds like the ash was being blown out of the firepot before it was finished burning. That's not an efficient way to burn. On the other hand, I recently read an article that said that stoves burn more efficiently on higher settings. I also don't like to burn the stoves on very low settings because they produce more tar/creosote when the firepot temperatures are low. That is consistent with the article I referred to, creosote is unburned fuel.
As for the cycles being hard on the igniter, That depends on the stove. My Mt Vernon AE cycles a few times an hour and the igniter is on it's fourth year. In any case the igniters are cheap and easy to replace on both my stoves. The igniter for the Mt Vernon is about $30 and I got one for the 25-PDVC off of Ebay for $5.

My M55 is hooked up to a Lux programmable t-stat and while I do run on hi-low at times, my problem is that if I wanted to shut off the stove with only the t-stat.....that won't work and the stove keeps running. So yeah, I go over to the stove and hit the power button. Is there a way to shut down the stove on high- low with a Lux P T-stat. My current procedure is that the t-stat turns the stove on at 5 am and heats up the downstairs to a toasty 73 (fan 3 and feed 1) then after 7am I turn the fan down to 2 and put the stove into hi-low and from 8am on the t-stat is set at 71.....
Thanks, Bill

Bill,you said you had to shut off your stove with the on/off button because the tstat wont do it. My Quadra fire castile has no on off button, only low/med/high switch. Wonder how that would effect me if i put a Wifi tstat on mine.Hmmmm.

 

[bostonfan49]

Bill,you said you had to shut off your stove with the on/off button because the tstat wont do it. My Quadra fire castile has no on off button, only low/med/high switch. Wonder how that would effect me if i put a Wifi tstat on mine.Hmmmm.

littlesol, if my stove is in "Auto" I use the t-stat all the time but in the shoulder season that means the stoves constantly cycles on and off, thus the use of the hi-low setting....As to your stove, how the heck do you turn it on and off, I'm confused....Bill

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Im thinking your right about the creosote on low on the glass. Wonder if it builds in the flue pipe as well. With burning on high there was only dust on the glass.

When I was burning Infernos, in automatic mode, the vent had a black oily coating on it.
Automatic mode on the Mt Vernon runs a small fire when the temperature is only a little below the setpoint. This provides more stable room temperature, but is an inefficient way to burn pellets.
I now run in manual mode, with a medium-high flame setting. Burning Softwood LG Granules, the vent now only has a light coating of black dust.

 

[pinetop12]

Original Poster/
Really no right way or wrong way .Each of us experiments and continues to do what seems to work.
I've felt ...
Burning at higher temps makes cleaning the stove easier .Lower temps sometimes forms a gummy type substance in the burning chamber and heat ex-changer tubes . However, Burning better grade pellets does seem to allow me to burn at lower temps. If you do end up with the gummyness inside the stove , try cranking the stove on high for an hour or two this usually 'Burns' away the ugly sticky ash .
As others have stated low burn issues occur mostly , early or late season . My 2 cents .

 

[littlesol]

littlesol, if my stove is in "Auto" I use the t-stat all the time but in the shoulder season that means the stoves constantly cycles on and off, thus the use of the hi-low setting....As to your stove, how the heck do you turn it on and off, I'm confused....Bill

The thermostat.

 

[Wilbur Feral]

Bill,you said you had to shut off your stove with the on/off button because the tstat wont do it. My Quadra fire castile has no on off button, only low/med/high switch. Wonder how that would effect me if i put a Wifi tstat on mine.Hmmmm.

Your stove will operate no differently than with a manual thermostat. You can hack it to allow a stat that can control three stage heating to vary high-med-low, as TwoBraids describes in his excellent post from a couple of years ago (search for TwoBraids and Nest), but once your stove reaches target temp it will just turn off.

I got around that issue, but only by using an automation system I already have. It would make no sense to purchase the equipment needed to do that, except for possibly doing so with a Raspberry Pi or Arduino, both of which require programming skills. Otherwise, a "wifi stat" would do nothing more for you, that I can see.

 

[Jonkman]

It sounds like you are getting creosote build up from running it on low. I believe creosote is left over from an inefficient burning (not hot enough) of fuel. And from many posts I've read it seems that it is better to run on medium or high instead of low in terms of ash buildup in your exhaust pipe. I think the theory is a cleaner burn and more air movement so things like ash and creosote won't build up as much on medium and high.

I have the same setup as you, and I have mine on high, or medium all the time and just let the thermostat turn it on or off. If yours is cycling on or off too much maybe your swing on your thermostat is set to small, and needs to be larger. I have mine set to a 1.5 degree swing (so 3 degrees total, min will kick on at 69 and turn off at 71). And it can go hours between cycling on and off sometimes (once the house is up to temp after the evening). Usually when I just start to think it's beginning to feel chilly the thing will kick on...I think I would rather have it this way versus having it run all the time, but to each his own.

 

[crizpynutz]

I'm noticing more creosote build up too both inside the stove and on the glass. I've been using a TStat set on ~71 degrees to run the stove (Hi/Lo #3), but it seems to really burn low a lot. Maybe I'd be better off turning it off and back on...Once it's colder out, I suspect it will be less of an issue.

I always use the cook top cleaner on my glass, works amazing.