Burying the stove top needle on a PE Stove...

[SuperJ]

My father has a PE Alderlea T5 that he likes. It looks good and throw heat nicely too. Its a big reason why I got my woodstove this year.
He has a tall probably 20-25' class A chimney going straight up.
Anyways, the stove always runs super hot, so I got him a Condar stove top thermometer for Christmas.
This one:
http://www.condar.com/Stovetop_Thermometers.html

It seems that if you put more than 2-3 splits in there it pins the needle on the TOO HOT scale. Even if you try and catch it on the way up and set to low very early it just keeps climbing. He says he found the top of the stove glowing before. The place were he got the stove, has told him it's impossible to overfire a PE stove and not to worry about it. I'm a little concerned... should I be? or is the biggest problem that he basically just wasting wood by sending all that heat up the chimney?

For the first two years he was trying to run the stove with a magnetic surface thermometer stuck to his stove pipe, but it's double wall the "clean" zone indicated on the thermometer is likely way too hot for double wall.

Should I suggest he get a damper to control the draft better and bring the stove top temps down a bit?

Upside, his glass is way cleaner than my BK glass with 800-900F stove top temps.

 

[MisterFixIT]

I run both a Chimgard on my double wall pipe and the Inferno Stove top meter on my PE Classic. They are better than nothing but are off from reading I get with an IR thermometer. My Inferno likes to lag on the way up and the Chimgard lags reading temps on the way back down. I guess I have them as a sanity check for my thermocouple reader incase something bad happens with the program.

I only have 17 feet of straight pipe, so far I have been able to quench it off and bring the temps back down. Not so with my old Lopi Leyden, it went supernova and I cracked the combuster on the back.

My PE has a little tube connecting the ash pan area to the lower front of the fire box (boost manifold). I have heard people that block that off to reduce the air. Also some people dremel the air control flap to allow it to close almost completely. I haven't had to do either one.

I can put super dry (5 years in the desert) small kindling splits in it and my classic has enough air quenching ability to crash the pipe temps if I want. The pipe thermocouple reading is important to get on top of the temps and quench that air control off early. Don't rely on just the stove top. In my experience you need both readings.

I like running about 600-650 on the stove top and 200-450 on the pipe. I haven't seen anything turn red.

 

[Doc C]

Sounds like he can't control his fire. And yes I would be worried. Need to check the door gasket and see if you can some how check the air control. I would try to find the problem before I added a pipe damper. It is possible that the chimney just drafts so hard the stove can't be controlled by the air control on the stove

 

[ToltingColtAcres]

The place were he got the stove, has told him it's impossible to overfire a PE stove and not to worry about it.

I love morons like this. Especially in the world of cell phone cameras.

I would use your cell phone, make a video of the stove operating as you claim, and then visit the dealer personally with video in hand.

 

[bcrtops]

Glowing is TOO hot!
These stoves are easy breathers & can really get going.

--We rarely load our stove full
--burn larger splits / rounds
--overnight burns I load it about 2/3 full only, using the heaviest pcs. I can find -- 2-3 very large splits / rounds.
--close it down soon, we usually don't even wait for a good secondary burn like most folks -- it will get there with dry wood shortly!

We only have ~15' of chimney & the stove will easily get up 800F & has numerous times. I have thought about putting in a damper in the stovepipe, but have not, as yet -- might restrict the air too much in shoulder weather/warmer ambient temps. You can mod the on stove system, so as to close air down more, but not recommended. This, too, I have not done, as afraid wife will close it down too much when not needed, creating creosote. We use a small 8" fan behind the stove (corner install), & a piece of sheet-metal curved up to replicate the PE fan system -- works to cool the stove some when running overly hot & distributes heat like the factory fan.

We have never had our stove "glowing". I think you'd have to get over 850F for this to occur = not good! The scariest burn we had was when I loaded up some super-dry alder for an overnight burn, full load -- ended up spraying water on the fire to cool it down, & we stayed up an extra hr. or 2, until the stove settled down. Even so, it was not "glowing"!

Yes...................you can easily over-fire the PE T5, even on a short stack! Cannot imagine any dealer saying what you have reported......never read the manual. These are tough stoves, but running "glowing" hot will eventually destroy its innards & eat the baffle up, among other things!

[We have a thermometer on the dbl. wall stovepipe too, but only use it for RELATIVE temps, not actual. I.e., On our stove, when it registers 300F, we start monitoring the one on the actual stove-top, which you have to look at through the swing-out crate on the T5.]

 

[SuperJ]

The scary Thing is is that even with the double wall pipe he’s had a surface mount stovepipe thermometer read too hot. Yikes!!

Glowing is TOO hot!
These stoves are easy breathers & can really get going.

--We rarely load our stove full
--burn larger splits / rounds
--overnight burns I load it about 2/3 full only, using the heaviest pcs. I can find -- 2-3 very large splits / rounds.
--close it down soon, we usually don't even wait for a good secondary burn like most folks -- it will get there with dry wood shortly!

We only have ~15' of chimney & the stove will easily get up 800F & has numerous times. I have thought about putting in a damper in the stovepipe, but have not, as yet -- might restrict the air too much in shoulder weather/warmer ambient temps. You can mod the on stove system, so as to close air down more, but not recommended. This, too, I have not done, as afraid wife will close it down too much when not needed, creating creosote. We use a small 8" fan behind the stove (corner install), & a piece of sheet-metal curved up to replicate the PE fan system -- works to cool the stove some when running overly hot & distributes heat like the factory fan.

We have never had our stove "glowing". I think you'd have to get over 850F for this to occur = not good! The scariest burn we had was when I loaded up some super-dry alder for an overnight burn, full load -- ended up spraying water on the fire to cool it down, & we stayed up an extra hr. or 2, until the stove settled down. Even so, it was not "glowing"!

Yes...................you can easily over-fire the PE T5, even on a short stack! Cannot imagine any dealer saying what you have reported......never read the manual. These are tough stoves, but running "glowing" hot will eventually destroy its innards & eat the baffle up, among other things!

[We have a thermometer on the dbl. wall stovepipe too, but only use it for RELATIVE temps, not actual. I.e., On our stove, when it registers 300F, we start monitoring the one on the actual stove-top, which you have to look at through the swing-out crate on the T5.]

 

[SuperJ]

Your experience sounds like my father's, except he has at least another 10-15' of class A going straightup boosting his draft.
I wasn't sure how proactive I should be, since my wife accuses me of sometimes being to a little too helpful/nosy with other peoples problems (usually mechanically related with their car or something like that). But if it's a safety issue I'll pipe up.

Glowing is TOO hot!
These stoves are easy breathers & can really get going.

--We rarely load our stove full
--burn larger splits / rounds
--overnight burns I load it about 2/3 full only, using the heaviest pcs. I can find -- 2-3 very large splits / rounds.
--close it down soon, we usually don't even wait for a good secondary burn like most folks -- it will get there with dry wood shortly!

We only have ~15' of chimney & the stove will easily get up 800F & has numerous times. I have thought about putting in a damper in the stovepipe, but have not, as yet -- might restrict the air too much in shoulder weather/warmer ambient temps. You can mod the on stove system, so as to close air down more, but not recommended. This, too, I have not done, as afraid wife will close it down too much when not needed, creating creosote. We use a small 8" fan behind the stove (corner install), & a piece of sheet-metal curved up to replicate the PE fan system -- works to cool the stove some when running overly hot & distributes heat like the factory fan.

We have never had our stove "glowing". I think you'd have to get over 850F for this to occur = not good! The scariest burn we had was when I loaded up some super-dry alder for an overnight burn, full load -- ended up spraying water on the fire to cool it down, & we stayed up an extra hr. or 2, until the stove settled down. Even so, it was not "glowing"!

Yes...................you can easily over-fire the PE T5, even on a short stack! Cannot imagine any dealer saying what you have reported......never read the manual. These are tough stoves, but running "glowing" hot will eventually destroy its innards & eat the baffle up, among other things!

[We have a thermometer on the dbl. wall stovepipe too, but only use it for RELATIVE temps, not actual. I.e., On our stove, when it registers 300F, we start monitoring the one on the actual stove-top, which you have to look at through the swing-out crate on the T5.]

 

[ToltingColtAcres]

I would definitely install the damper. I had to install one in my system -- my Jotul will easily cause my double-wall pipe to see interior temps of 1100+ (I have an electronic probe thermometer) degrees if I load it N/S with well seasoned wood, even after dialing the stove all the way down! After one really scary incident (1200+ degrees) I installed the damper, which definitely helps in those occasions where the stove seems to have a mind of its own. Worst case, you'll never use it... But, as the saying goes -- better to have and not need to need and not have.

 

[black smoke signals]

Placing the stove top gauge over the cat IMHO tells me nothing but glowing stove top YIKES!

 

[begreen]

It is definitely possible to overfire a PE stove. Those temps are not right. It should be hard to burn 2-3 splits and spike the thermometer. bcrtops made some good suggestions. That is pretty much how we run our stove, though we are able to load it full and not exceed 700F on the stove top with 20' of straight up flue.

SuperJ, has the door gasket ever been replaced? If it is the original, how old is it and have you inspected it to see if it has come unglued in some areas?

 

[begreen]

The scary Thing is is that even with the double wall pipe he’s had a surface mount stovepipe thermometer read too hot. Yikes!!

That sounds like lack of secondary burn. Is he closing down the air as soon as the wood is burning well?

 

[Sprinter]

I wasn't sure how proactive I should be, since my wife accuses me of sometimes being to a little too helpful/nosy with other peoples problems (usually mechanically related with their car or something like that). But if it's a safety issue I'll pipe up.

Funny post. I have nothing more to add, except I will add that I have nothing to add (from an old Mash program). But I just saw too much of myself there to not to say something. I'm doing a balancing act like that often. I try to work at it, but this forum just makes it too easy to overspill one's mouth sometimes...

That will be all (this time)

 

[Sprinter]

Damn, I can't help myself. One other potential source of excess primary air is an ash cleanout door that is leaking from it's seals. Quite common for ash and gunk to compromise the seals, causing unwanted air to get in. FWIW. Most of us don't even use those dump doors for that reason.

 

[cahaak]

My former PE got over fired a couple of times. I had a lot of draft. I taped over a good portion of the air intake that remains open when the primary air is "closed" all the way. The draft was causing too much air. It was much more controllable then. In regards to the ash door, after you dump and use it, it helps to open and let it slam shut a couple of times to make sure there is nothing caught in it so that it can in fact close tightly.