Buying cordwood

[Burnbaby]

I'm noticing that as I shop for cordwood I'm seeing sellers stacking different ways. Are there tricks they use to make stacks appear bigger, and if so what should I be looking for ? The reason I post this, there was a warning posted on Craigslist, for consumers to be aware of sellers stacking there wood to give appearance of it being larger.

 

[Bocefus78]

If the ends are cross stacked with lots of space between pieces of wood, you are being shorted a little, but nothing worth arguing over IMO. Take a tape measure if you are picking up, or tell him you want it stacked and you will be home to measure it before he gets paid.

 

[KaptJaq]

To stop the discussions of how much wood was actually delivered the two main firewood sellers near me sell by the piece. They sell 220 splits for a set price. They will tell you that 220 of their splits will stack up to just over a face cord (1/3 of a full cord) but they are selling you 220 splits. If you stack it (as tight as you can) and you feel it is less than a face cord call them and they will make it up to you. I know several people that have bought from them and the 220 splits do stack to a face cord. They use an automated wood processor, logs in one end, splits out the other. Their splits are a pretty consistent size, about 4" x 4" to 4" x 6" and 95% 18" long so they are pretty good with their cord guesstimate.

KaptJaq

 

[Backwoods Savage]

We have several stacks and all the same type of wood but they are priced differently.

Stack #1 is a cord of wood and if a dog comes along chasing a rabbit, both the rabbit and the dog can go through the stack.

Stack #2 sells a bit higher in price. The reason is if the dog comes along chasing the rabbit, the rabbit goes through the stack but the dog has to go around.

This third stack is premium. If the dog comes again chasing a rabbit, both rabbit and dog have to go around the wood stack.

 

[bogydave]

We have several stacks and all the same type of wood but they are priced differently.

Stack #1 is a cord of wood and if a dog comes along chasing a rabbit, both the rabbit and the dog can go through the stack.

Stack #2 sells a bit higher in price. The reason is if the dog comes along chasing the rabbit, the rabbit goes through the stack but the dog has to go around.

This third stack is premium. If the dog comes again chasing a rabbit, both rabbit and dog have to go around the wood stack.

About the best definition I've seen.
Can't think of anything to add

 

[tcassavaugh]

We have several stacks and all the same type of wood but they are priced differently.

Stack #1 is a cord of wood and if a dog comes along chasing a rabbit, both the rabbit and the dog can go through the stack.

Stack #2 sells a bit higher in price. The reason is if the dog comes along chasing the rabbit, the rabbit goes through the stack but the dog has to go around.

This third stack is premium. If the dog comes again chasing a rabbit, both rabbit and dog have to go around the wood stack.

nicely put

cass

 

[Jon1270]

Like so many people, I recently learned this lesson the hard way. I paid for 2.25 cords of "seasoned" hardwoods, and what I got was 1.33 cords of stuff so wet that I won't be able to burn it until next year. I actually oven-dried a few samples, and the MC ranged from 40% to 113%.

The legal definition of a cord universally uses the language "racked and well stowed," which means stacked as tight as you can get it, with all the splits oriented the same way. If a pile measures 128 cubic feet but is stacked in layers that criss-cross each other, that's not a cord. If it arrives in a 128 cf bin but is just tossed in there willy-nilly, that's not even close to a cord.

If you Google 'how to buy firewood,' you'll get a lot of articles on agricultural university and county government websites that all give similar advice. They'll tell you not to deal with fly-by-night dealers with no name, no business address, no receipts and nothing but a cell phone number or email address, because you'll have no recourse when they screw you. They also tell you to pay extra to have the wood stacked, because that's the only way you can accurately measure what you've got before the seller drives off with your money (cash only, of course).

I've started gathering my own firewood, but if I expected to buy it regularly I'd look for an honest dealer and go to them over and over again. The firewood market is the wild west -- many ignorant and/or dishonest dealers, many ways to get screwed, and almost totally unregulated. There are laws on the books about how firewood should be sold, but nobody seems to pay those laws any attention at all.

 

[raybonz]

I'm noticing that as I shop for cordwood I'm seeing sellers stacking different ways. Are there tricks they use to make stacks appear bigger, and if so what should I be looking for ? The reason I post this, there was a warning posted on Craigslist, for consumers to be aware of sellers stacking there wood to give appearance of it being larger.

http://enoslandscape.com/wood-cord.php The dimensions and method of packing it tight are correct however the cubic feet should say 128 cu. ft not 164 cu. ft....

Ray

 

[Jon1270]

http://enoslandscape.com/wood-cord.php The dimensions and method of packing it tight are correct however the cubic feet should say 128 cu. ft not 164 cu. ft....

That link has other problems. It claims that it takes 3 face cords to make one full cord, but a "face cord" is a measure of area, not volume, so it's misleading to suggest that there's a fixed ratio of face cords:cords. There isn't. Legally, there's no such thing as a face cord.

 

[raybonz]

That link has other problems. It claims that it takes 3 face cords to make one full cord, but a "face cord" is a measure of area, not volume, so it's misleading to suggest that there's a fixed ratio of face cords:cords. There isn't. Legally, there's no such thing as a face cord.

I ignore facecords I only deal with cords.. 4'x'4'x8' tightly packed is a cord, period.. Too many unscrupulous wood guys and I have dealt with many.. The guy I have now has been honest so I stay with him..

Ray

 

[Applesister]

I'm noticing that as I shop for cordwood I'm seeing sellers stacking different ways. Are there tricks they use to make stacks appear bigger, and if so what should I be looking for ? The reason I post this, there was a warning posted on Craigslist, for consumers to be aware of sellers stacking there wood to give appearance of it being larger.

Craigs list really IS the Wild West isn't it? Im great with advise but rarely follow it. Its fun to play and I think Im really smart but I get had every time. I get roped in by sellers offering specific species.
My sister bought a cord of "seasoned" wood two years ago. It was seasoned and it was really nice firewood but....2 years later she is still trying to burn it and its still steaming and hissing water out the end grain of the splits.
We both agreed the wood was laying in water somewhere..either in a swamp or in the contractors wood yard. She bought the wood from an excavating company that clears building lots.
We have dubbed the pile the "Beaver Pond Wood"
It sits as testament to Buyer Beware.
But do we heed the warning? nope.

 

[raybonz]

Craigs list really IS the Wild West isn't it? Im great with advise but rarely follow it. Its fun to play and I think Im really smart but I get had every time. I get roped in by sellers offering specific species.
My sister bought a cord of "seasoned" wood two years ago. It was seasoned and it was really nice firewood but....2 years later she is still trying to burn it and its still steaming and hissing water out the end grain of the splits.
We both agreed the wood was laying in water somewhere..either in a swamp or in the contractors wood yard. She bought the wood from an excavating company that clears building lots.
We have dubbed the pile the "Beaver Pond Wood"
It sits as testament to Buyer Beware.
But do we heed the warning? nope.

Did you stack the wood off the ground in the wind and only top cover it? I never trust wood to be sold as seasoned unless kiln dried. I did have one woodguy that actually sold seasoned wood but he went way up in price and it was a true cord however I found another woodguy that delivers a true cord and I season it myself for much less $$.. Welcome to the forum BTW and where are you located?

Ray

 

[Applesister]

If you divide (4) feet or 48" by 16" it divides evenly by (3)three.
4' X 8' X 16" = (1) facecord
The Beaver Pond Wood was suppossed to have been a full cord. But it stacked to almost 2 facecords. And it sold for 260.00
130.00 per facecord!!
You can divide what you get by what you pay to find the unit cost. If you want to really aggrevate yourself. But it never comes out to what the seller tells you.

 

[Stegman]

I buy my wood from a local tree service guy [about five cords worth]. What he does is ask me what I want [ash, cherry, maple, whatever] and then he delivers it every few weeks throughout the late winter and spring and I stack it at my leisure. When I've got all the wood I want, he comes down and we figure out how much I have and I cut him a check. He did this the first time I ever bought from him. Maybe he's more trusting than a lot of guys you'll encounter, but it works out well. I would have been perfectly happy giving him a down payment.
If you're planning to buy a lot of firewood, I would ask about this kind of arrangement - especially if you don't want to pay extra to have your supplier do the stacking for you. And I think I'd stay away from Craigslist. Ask around town or look in the yellow pages for local tree companies.

 

[raybonz]

I buy my wood from a local tree service guy [about five cords worth]. What he does is ask me what I want [ash, cherry, maple, whatever] and then he delivers it every few weeks throughout the late winter and spring and I stack it at my leisure. When I've got all the wood I want, he comes down and we figure out how much I have and I cut him a check. He did this the first time I ever bought from him. Maybe he's more trusting than a lot of guys you'll encounter, but it works out well. I would have been perfectly happy giving him a down payment.
If you're planning to buy a lot of firewood, I would ask about this kind of arrangement - especially if you don't want to pay extra to have your supplier do the stacking for you. And I think I'd stay away from Craigslist. Ask around town or look in the yellow pages for local tree companies.

Sounds like the best way to get what you paid for! Great idea!

Ray

 

[Applesister]

Hi Ray
Thanks...when I figure out how to load pictures I'll do the formal introduction. I found the forum thru a guy posting on Craigs list. He had posted a photo of a wood pile sculpture. Alot of work...some artist who caught my eye. I took a wood sculpture class at Skidmore College. They have a great woodshop. Upstate New York. Saratoga area, just a little south of the Adirondack mountain ranges. Zone 5. I have a small apple orchard in the area.

Im involved with a forest stewardship program with DEC and belong to New York State Forest Owners Association. Silvaculture is not my background but it is my passion. Ive been too excited to introduce myself reading all of your threads. I cant believe there are others like me. I joined the forum to post pictures of wood species I cannot identify.
I heat with wood as a natural means of culling storm damaged, diseased and unwanted wood.
My dream is to own a pair of draft horses to learn to log with.
Cindie

 

[Jags]

We have several stacks and all the same type of wood but they are priced differently.

Stack #1 is a cord of wood and if a dog comes along chasing a rabbit, both the rabbit and the dog can go through the stack.

Stack #2 sells a bit higher in price. The reason is if the dog comes along chasing the rabbit, the rabbit goes through the stack but the dog has to go around.

This third stack is premium. If the dog comes again chasing a rabbit, both rabbit and dog have to go around the wood stack.

Grandma always said "stack so a squirrel can run through it, but the dog can't"

 

[PapaDave]

If you divide (4) feet or 48" by 16" it divides evenly by (3)three.
4' X 8' X 16" = (1) facecord

Agreed, but we could play this game all day.
If you divide 4' by 24", it's 2.
Divide it by 18", it's 2.6666.........
What size split do we need, that then becomes a "face cord" for us, but not for someone else.
I also stack differently than my firewood guy. To a lot of people up here, a "cord" is actually describing a "facecord", and as long as it fits in the stove, it's good.
WAY too many variables. As long as the stacked wood comes pretty close to what I asked for (full cord btw), I'm gooder to go.
I have a couple guys I can get c/s/d wood from that I know will bring almost exactly what I order......up here, they wouldn't stay in business long if they didn't.
My log load guy is the same (and I was amazed by this)......20 cord ordered and it c/s/s out to almost exactly that.

 

[PapaDave]

Didn't mean to be rude, so......
Cindie, welcome to the Hearth.

 

[raybonz]

Hi Ray
Thanks...when I figure out how to load pictures I'll do the formal introduction. I found the forum thru a guy posting on Craigs list. He had posted a photo of a wood pile sculpture. Alot of work...some artist who caught my eye. I took a wood sculpture class at Skidmore College. They have a great woodshop. Upstate New York. Saratoga area, just a little south of the Adirondack mountain ranges. Zone 5. I have a small apple orchard in the area.

Im involved with a forest stewardship program with DEC and belong to New York State Forest Owners Association. Silvaculture is not my background but it is my passion. Ive been too excited to introduce myself reading all of your threads. I cant believe there are others like me. I joined the forum to post pictures of wood species I cannot identify.
I heat with wood as a natural means of culling storm damaged, diseased and unwanted wood.
My dream is to own a pair of draft horses to learn to log with.
Cindie

Welcome Cindie you're gonna fit right in here! After digging through the fluff it appears you live in upstate NY which is God's country with all its' picturesque one horse towns. There are other members of the feminine persuasion here as well so you're sure to be hearing from them as well.. You'll soon discover that we're indeed a sick bunch here You will be in good company as we do understand!

Ray

 

[KaptJaq]

Agreed, but we could play this game all day.
If you divide 4' by 24", it's 2.
Divide it by 18", it's 2.6666.........

Around here a "face cord" is 8' long x 4' high x 16" wide. If you want another length then it is about 43 cubic feet. Most people want 16" to 18" splits so the standard face cord works well, what you see when you look at one face of a full cord of 16" splits.

No matter what the terminology is make sure that the buyer and seller agree on what it means and everybody will be happy. I don't care what they call it, face cord, 220 splits, pick-up load dumped, tightly stacked cord, rick, whatever. As long I get what I expect and what I feel I paid for I'm happy. If I'm not sure exactly what he will deliver I ask for more details before it is delivered. (broken link removed to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_Emptor_%28album%29), Let the buyer beware.

KaptJaq

 

[Machria]

Kapt Jaq,
How much do you pay for the 220? and where is that on LI?

I don't need any wood, but curious. Thanks....

 

[KaptJaq]

Kapt Jaq,
How much do you pay for the 220? and where is that on LI?

I don't need any wood, but curious. Thanks....

Sent a PM...

 

[Applesister]

Didn't mean to be rude, so......
Cindie, welcome to the Hearth.

The sound of 20 cords of wood makes my joints hurt. I heard you guys out West do things in a big way.
A 24" log....geeze. I read somewhere that those big open colonial fireplaces in the kitchens of Montecello(Thomas Jefferson's estate) burned a total of 70 cords of wood in one winter!!
Thank God for Benjaman Franklin and the Franklin stove!!
You are right, though, Papadave a cord is whatever you want...customer is always right.
A symbiotic relationship with a good supplier works both ways.
And my grandpa used to say..."When you cut your own wood it warms you twice."
You guys are all great!!
I love this forum.

 

[PapaDave]

You are right, though, Papadave a cord is whatever you want...customer is always right.

Well, not actually what I meant. A cord is 128 cu. ft......however you slice it. I cut all my stuff to 16", so it's very easy to calculate usage, easy to stack.......
Michigan is actually where I live, below the bridge...AKA, a troll. Dang yoopers gave us that moniker.
Lots of folks on here do the log load thing. I'd do another if I had the money. The last one I got was in May, 2009 and I'll be burning the last of that wood at
least through next year (2013-14 season).
ETA: Sorry for the hijack, burnbaby. Carry on.