Bye bye copper piping

[elkimmeg]

The price of copper forced using pex everywhere. I did 3 rough inspections this week. Evident is the non pressence of copper plumbing. Everything is now plastic. In fact it is color coded red pipes for hot blue for the cold side. I must admit it looked strange
I guess this is progress? but time will tell Look for more alumium wiring this time I hope they get it right The last alumium wiring go around had to be replaced as Alumium does not make that good of a contact with copper fittings or brass most of it had to be replaced and fires resulted arking poor contacts ect. Things are changing already. especially the RE market Too much unsold inventory

 

[saichele]

Not sure it's a bad thing - lots of people prefer the PEX, and I think in many applications makes for a tidier job. But it used to be pricier than regular copper. Like 'alternative' energy. Now PEX is gettingmass produced, and copper is climbing. You could sub in windmills and oil.

Unfortunately I think copper wire is here to stay - just get used to the idea of $75 for 14-2 and $100 for 12-2. Tough to find anything that's as good a conductor.

Bet if we skipped the ground wire in the romex we could save some money ...

Just kidding , elk.

Steve

 

[Eric Johnson]

LOL, those ground wires do get in the way.

What's the max temp for pex? I've heard of it blowing out at temps in the mid 200s, specifically in an overheat situation.

 

[Sandor]

LOL, those ground wires do get in the way.

What's the max temp for pex? I've heard of it blowing out at temps in the mid 200s, specifically in an overheat situation.

Would not doubt that Eric.

Interesting note...Most Pex manufacturers say you cannot use Pex for the first 18" exiting a water heater....

Seen that Elk? I always bought the special 18" 3/4 NPT to Pex copper tube for that app.

When I build again, it will be PEX, period.

 

[njtomatoguy]

CPVC-Specifically Flowguard Gold- One step glue- no primer- cost effective-low theft - excellent product in my opinion-- I did a 6 story apt bldg over the winter last year-- that was enough to convince me...

 

[velvetfoot]

Is pex the flexible stuff?

 

[Sandor]

Is pex the flexible stuff?

Yes. Do need to make wide sweeps with it however.

 

[elkimmeg]

Copper is not the only material excalating in price. Has anyone priced PVC conduit recently. Be in for a big suprise.
Oh! and steel prices?? The plumbing supply house near by, informed all plumbers that they recieved notice that all PVC /cpvc of price increases. It is almost impossible to bid materials beyond 14 days. I know materials excalator clauses but things are increasing so much so, that limited budget jobs means, eating labor cost to complete. That's money out of my pocket.
No wonder I do more and more jobs for hourly wages.. Roof shingles oil based product, a year ago about $25 per square yesterday $42 and climbing, glad I did my roofs a year back.

 

[njtomatoguy]

Back in march, the plumbing supply house told me to start saving my small pieces because the price was going up- he seemed to think that the hurricanes caused the price to go up, and most of the product is manufactured will be spoken for ..I don't know that it was true, just what he said

 

[webbie]

Back in march, the plumbing supply house told me to start saving my small pieces because the price was going up- he seemed to think that the hurricanes caused the price to go up, and most of the product is manufactured will be spoken for ..I don't know that it was true, just what he said

Basic Aluminum - from 80 cents a year ago (which was historically high) to 1.40 now!

This is one way to conserve! When everything costs more, we are more careful about using and wasting it.

Wait, isn't aluminum the most common element in the earths crust? I know, it takes a lot of electric to smelt it from the ore, but that's what Hydro is for.

Maybe these are normal prices and we were just used to paying too little? I know steel was very cheap before - like 20-25 cents a pound. Years ago when I considered buying a steel stove company, the entire stove could be built for $175 labor, material, glass, box, etc. - has to be about triple that today. Cast is a better deal in some way since there are so many foundries in China looking for work. Heck, the barbell set I bought at Dicks cost me less than $.70 a lb! Just for comparison, 20 years ago we paid about $1.00 a pound or US made castings on OEM basis.

 

[saichele]

Gid's mostly right here, along witha few othe rposts. Energy costs money. converting the raw materials, even if they're rocks, takes energy which costs money.

In the broader sense, I'm not sure how much I care. Maybe it means new construction will be smaller - less SF means less wiring, less plumbing, probably less glass.

Of course, that would probably cut heating and cooling costs as well. And we live in the same number of SF as families inthe 50's and 60's. Maybe we even buy less stuff, based on smaller spaces to store it.

Just some crazy thoughts here.

Steve

 

[Sandor]

I thought Fe was the most comment element in earths crust.

 

[webbie]

Gid's mostly right here, along witha few othe rposts. Energy costs money. converting the raw materials, even if they're rocks, takes energy which costs money.

In the broader sense, I'm not sure how much I care. Maybe it means new construction will be smaller - less SF means less wiring, less plumbing, probably less glass.

Of course, that would probably cut heating and cooling costs as well. And we live in the same number of SF as families inthe 50's and 60's. Maybe we even buy less stuff, based on smaller spaces to store it.

Just some crazy thoughts here.

Steve

Actually, sounds very reasonable!

If it actually happens. The other possibility is that people will put themselves more and more into debt in order to get what they see as their birthright (a mansion) with the government and industry all pushing them along in the name of "economic expansion".

 

[saichele]

Actually, oxygen is the most common element inthe crust (all thos emetals oxidize) followed by silica and aluminum.

See http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/geology/crust_elements.html for the rest of the breakdown.

Steve

 

[elkimmeg]

Of course, that would probably cut heating and cooling costs as well. And we live in the same number of SF as families inthe 50’s and 60’s. Maybe we even buy less stuff, based on smaller spaces to store it.

There is one big difference our parents or grandparents learned to save up for purchases. If they did not have the money they learned to do without. Today we have plastic and bankruphies. Most will run up deth rather than do without, got to have it now.

We all will be paying for that type of illresponsibility. Change is comming fast There are few alternatives plans an even any in place will not be initiated soon enough or too little too late. Still advertised 300hp SUVs. I won't go into us being ecnomically compromised due to the war on terror

 

[saichele]

Might make the existing 'mcmansions' more valuable, in that they won;t be building them anymore.

Or maybe we'll be stripping them for scrap copper and wire.

Steve

 

[Sandor]

Elk, beautiful man - that's it. Change is coming fast and you look left and you look right and you don't see any viable alternatives and that's when you know you are in trouble.

Steve, I think the McMans are doomed. I think their value plummets inversely with a spike in energy.

My daughter is dating a kid.

His parents are these ridiculous white-bread suburban liberals.

I almost _____ mysely when the wife commented that she and her husband were "committed environmentalists".

Really? You live in a 4500 sf house with dual A/C units and you both drive SUVs 40 miles round trip to work every day.

huh?

Meanwhile, my whole home is flourescent and I yell at the kids for leaving the lights on, and their son rakes me over the coals to my daughter for being a "weirdo" being all hung up on excessive American oil usage!

Yea, been shacking up with a women. Trying to get her kids energy/enviromentally aware is a lost cause. Hell, trying to get the women aware is a lost cause. Its progress then they forget everything when it requires more effort than flipping a switch.

All of them think I'm some kind of wacko. Oh well, I don't pay rent or the electric bill and the bank account(s) looks nice.

Face it Gids, were are both wackos.