Can air, completely closed, cause monoxide?

[Prometeo]

Thanks in advance to anyone who wants to help me, I have a 30 foot chimney, single wall, Inside the masonry of the house, there are no exposed sides,
works well, draft is also too much, but if I completely close the air I think I have monoxide because I'm slightly dizzy, I'm about to get a monoxide detector, but is it possible? This jotul F 500 eco stove is sold with indication closed combustion: yes.
Thanks

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Thanks in advance to anyone who wants to help me, I have a 30 foot chimney, single wall, Inside the masonry of the house, there are no exposed sides,
works well, draft is also too much, but if I completely close the air I think I have monoxide because I'm slightly dizzy, I'm about to get a monoxide detector, but is it possible? This jotul F 500 eco stove is sold with indication closed combustion: yes.
Thanks

I suppose it is possible. Yes, get a CO detector.
Get a low reading detector, if available given your concerns.

 

[Poindexter]

Yes, it is very easy to generate carbon monoxide with a smoldering fire. It is an indicator of incomplete combustion.

However, elevated CO2 (carbon dioxide) levels can also lead to dizziness.

 

[EbS-P]

I had turned my air down too soon and the fire started to smolder. I could smell it. From the other end of the house. Maybe it was getting sucked back into the house ? But I looked at my air quality meter and the largest deviation from my base line was CO. So if you have flames with active secondary combustion you are ok. If you close it down to much and snuff the fire out I could see CO and or CO2 being a possibility.

 

[peakbagger]

You cannot see CO but if you see tan or brown smoke its good indication that the stove is running without enough air. Fresh wood on a good bed of coals with the air cranked down can cause a lot of CO.

 

[Prometeo]

Thank you all, for the moment I have put on this iron which prevents close the air completely

 

[EbS-P]

Thank you all, for the moment I have put on this iron which prevents close the air completely
View attachment 317702View attachment 317703

Several US F series owners sought out EU parts for their stove so they would be able to reduce the amount of primary air when the air control was full closed. I think your solution is good.

 

[gthomas785]

Do you smell any kind of smoke in the house? CO leaking from a wood stove is definitely possible but it would most likely be accompanied by some smoke leakage as well... It's not like a gas furnace which would have no smell at all, at least that would be unlikely in my opinion

 

[Ashful]

I don't like that mod. What if you have a run-away load, now you have no ability to shut down?

I'd use a tape or paint mark on the casting to show me the full closed and the 5mm opening marks, then use my own eye to set the stove accordingly. Bending hardware to prevent full closure would make me nervous, I like to know I can shut that b!tch down as far as possible, in an emergency.

 

[Prometeo]

@Ctwoodtick
I hadn't considered the scale, the one I received starts alarm at 150 ppm, practically after I die he tries to resurrect me! it is with electric wire ( no battery ) good brand, but I have to find another one with display, reliable

@Poindexter
I thought it wasn't coming out of the joints in the stove anyway, but if the draft is interrupted, it could happen, Unfortunately I think it's necessary a certificate, such as a driving licence to use these "appliances"

@EbS-P
From what I understand, if monoxide starts to escape it spreads quickly, like a clearing with air.

If you know someone who buys this Europa part, say be very careful to completely block the draft,
surely this is the reason why I often see users who find small holes in Us stove, here and there,
for not to completely block the draft.

@peakbagger
yes, I left the air closed and the next day the glass was brown, but it cleaned itself with high heat, however the air in the house was not good in the morning

@gthomas785
smoke smell is only slightly noticeable, but monoxide in my opinion was quite high

@Ashful
under the stove, where it gets air, I have a partially closed valve that prevents the flames from tearing, as the flue is very high 30-31 feet. I can close that or get a fire extinguisher. But I am calmer knowing that air combustion will never be closed, totally, I didn't bend anything, I just added a bent iron that prevents air setting do not close completely, I can say about 1/6 or 1/7 remains open

 

[EbS-P]

Do you add a damper? I forget. But it’s probably not needed if you can smother the fire with 30 feet or your wood is wet.

 

[Prometeo]

OAK was also eliminated, the stove took air from an adjacent garage, now the stove takes air from the room and the room from the garage, (in the middle of winter, garage air the minimum is 12-13 celsius) I take this opportunity to have renewed clean air, every problem can become a possibility

 

[Prometeo]

Do you add a damper? I forget. But it’s probably not needed if you can smother the fire with 30 feet or your wood is wet.

this is my damper, but I believe that if the air setting is closed completely, this damper makes no difference, it acts by limiting the draft when there is like a rev limiter, but if I close completely it makes no difference,
firewood is between 10 and 30 moisture next year will be better

 

[begreen]

It sounds like the very long flue is cooling down late in the burn to the point where draft reversal occurs. If so, it's a dangerous situation. Definitely get a loud and persistent CO monitor.
Is there a lot of smoke spillage when the stove is started up cold? Is it balky to start until the flue is warmed up?

 

[Prometeo]

@begreen

When I start the stove, there is no smoke, I start with the side door open, then close it, and I continue with full open air, the problem seems to arise starting to close the air, that I immediately start to feel discomfort in my head, this also last night with only coals and air 1/6 open at that point I remembered that I had placed this at the end of the flue and went to remove it.
I hope this was the cause, yes I have a monoxide alarm, but it activates at 150 ppm without display, I ordered another one which should quickly detect even a few ppm with display, let's hope so.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Be careful until you get the new detector.

 

[EbS-P]

@begreen

When I start the stove, there is no smoke, I start with the side door open, then close it, and I continue with full open air, the problem seems to arise starting to close the air, that I immediately start to feel discomfort in my head, this also last night with only coals and air 1/6 open at that point I remembered that I had placed this at the end of the flue and went to remove it.
I hope this was the cause, yes I have a monoxide alarm, but it activates at 150 ppm without display, I ordered another one which should quickly detect even a few ppm with display, let's hope so.

View attachment 317806

What was the intended purpose of that auger?

 

[Prometeo]

@Ctwoodtick 👍

@EbS-P
The aim, the draft would have slowed with it, but it was a bad idea

 

[Prometeo]

while waiting for a precise monoxide meter, I think I have identified possible causes. The first, a partial decoupling of the pipes due to a bad wall anchor that always went out a few centimeters from the wall, replaced with a threaded rod. I thought the decoupling had no effect but it may have caused a slight negative pression.


And the second cause may be my use of a galvanized conduit, such as OAK. Now I have also installed the rear shield but I will opt for a steel tube

 

[begreen]

Galvanized is ok for the OAK. It doesn't get hot.

 

[Prometeo]

@begreen

Thanks
Is it instead possible 1/2 inch disconnection in this point could cause a negative pressure and so co ?

 

[begreen]

Yes, that definitely is a serious problem that would seriously dilute draft. It may have been the source of the draft reversal. Time will tell now that it has been fixed. I would add additional rigid stove pipe supporting.

 

[Prometeo]

Did various tests,
Nowadays I no longer have that discomfort in my head,
after having resolved a partial chimney disconnection
and no longer have the possibility of completely closed air,
this thing seems to work quite well,
and I always have zero value,
anyway I'm about to open a discussion on stove and humidification

 

[Ashful]

I've had to learn a bit about humidification, as our relative humidity (RH) was running under 20% in winter. Imagine that, a mud-stacked stone house, which are supposed to be always "damp" if anyone believes that old wives' tale, at 17% RH all winter. It was causing us some serious discomfort.

My two key take-aways were this:

1. Stoves without outside air kits (OAKs) draw constant fresh air in through the house, which must then be heated, thus lowering it's RH%. The best cure to maintaining your humidity is always an OAK.

2. A pot of water simmering atop the stove is like pissing in the desert, and calling it wet. You will never put nearly enough moisture into the air to make up for what your stove is pulling out, particularly since you're introducing said moisture right at the exit point, where the stove can immediately draw it up the flue. You need a humidifier, or preferably a few, located elsewhere in the house. If located near a known air entry point, this will help distribute the water throughout the house.

On the subject of humidifiers, you'll find there's three basic types:

1. Ultrasonic, the majority of cheap consumer humidifiers on the market today. Advantage is no wick to replace, but disadvantage is they put all of your hard water minerals into the air, to be distributed as white dust around the house.
2. Wick type, has a wick that draws up water, and a fan that blows across the wick. If you owned a humidifier before 1980, it was likely a wick type, as they pre-dated the ultrasonic type as the common household humidifier. These have the advantage of retaining all water minerals in the wick, and keeping your house much cleaner (in fact they work as sort of an ad-hoc air purifier), but you do need to replace the wick every few weeks. I buy 6-packs of wicks for $4 each, and get 3-5 weeks out of each one.
3. Steam type, not common for portable / household humidifiers, but shares similar pros and cons to ultrasonic.

I really like my Honeywell HEV620B's, I have a small fleet of them that come out every winter, and then get stored in the attic every summer.

 

[EbS-P]

I've had to learn a bit about humidification, as our relative humidity (RH) was running under 20% in winter. Imagine that, a mud-stacked stone house, which are supposed to be always "damp" if anyone believes that old wives' tale, at 17% RH all winter. It was causing us some serious discomfort.

My two key take-aways were this:

1. Stoves without outside air kits (OAKs) draw constant fresh air in through the house, which must then be heated, thus lowering it's RH%. The best cure to maintaining your humidity is always an OAK.

2. A pot of water simmering atop the stove is like pissing in the desert, and calling it wet. You will never put nearly enough moisture into the air to make up for what your stove is pulling out, particularly since you're introducing said moisture right at the exit point, where the stove can immediately draw it up the flue. You need a humidifier, or preferably a few, located elsewhere in the house. If located near a known air entry point, this will help distribute the water throughout the house.

On the subject of humidifiers, you'll find there's three basic types:

1. Ultrasonic, the majority of cheap consumer humidifiers on the market today. Advantage is no wick to replace, but disadvantage is they put all of your hard water minerals into the air, to be distributed as white dust around the house.
2. Wick type, has a wick that draws up water, and a fan that blows across the wick. If you owned a humidifier before 1980, it was likely a wick type, as they pre-dated the ultrasonic type as the common household humidifier. These have the advantage of retaining all water minerals in the wick, and keeping your house much cleaner (in fact they work as sort of an ad-hoc air purifier), but you do need to replace the wick every few weeks. I buy 6-packs of wicks for $4 each, and get 3-5 weeks out of each one.
3. Steam type, not common for portable / household humidifiers, but shares similar pros and cons to ultrasonic.

I really like my Honeywell HEV620B's, I have a small fleet of them that come out every winter, and then get stored in the attic every summer.

Ahh opposite worlds. My dehumidifier is still running