Can I do these modifications to my brand new Jotul F400 Castine?

[Connecticut]

Hello. Three days ago I installed a brand new F400 Castine. I've read about 100 threads where people are having difficulties running it and about the smoke coming in. I am having the same issues. My firewood is 13-15% moisture according to my meter so the wood is pretty good. My liner goes straight up through a chimney which is in the center of the house (it's 21 feet long). There are no bends or turns in the liner, it pretty much drops directly on my stove. I recently moved to a new house and left my 4 year old Jotul Oslo behind which was the most amazing stove. The Oslo would start in minutes and then the fire would be blasting all night.

I think I picked a wrong stove for my application. I don't want to fully heat the house per se. I basically want a cozy living room and I want that amazing ambiance that I was able to achieve with the Oslo. I like to hear the crackling of the wood and seeing shadows of flames on my walls. The Castine does not do this. So I basically bought the wrong stove and now I need to make it work, I doubt they take back used stoves even though it's 3 days old.

Are there any modifications that I can do in order to make it burn better? I don't care if I lose efficiency, I only want to run it from about 5pm to maybe 10pm. I also have over 8 cords of oak firewood that is seasoned and ready to be burned (I took down two gigantic 120 year old oak trees on my property).

So far I've read that I can change the Inspection Plate from the USA one to a Euro one. The problem is that I can only find a place in the UK that sells them but they don't ship to America. https://www.jotulgroupspares.co.uk/jotul/shop/inspection-cover-f400-eu/460.htm

Has anybody ever tried to remove these and if so how did the stove function?
1. Removing the top baffle
2. Removing the Baffle Plate 2 (the little plate that stands up on top of the Baffle Cover)

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I did such a meticulous job installing this stove that I almost can't sleep due to the fact that the stove doesn't meet my expectations.

thank you!

 

[webby3650]

I know you said your wood is dry, but also said Oak... when did you split and stack it?

 

[webby3650]

There’s no reason to modify the stove to get it to burn, you’ve got an ideal set up. Is it smoking out when you are attempting to get the fire going on start up? When you reload it?

 

[Connecticut]

I know you said your wood is dry, but also said Oak... when did you split and stack it?

I brought two cords of firewood from the old house and it was split exactly two years ago in February.

The new oak firewood was split over the summer but I'm not using this (I misspoke earlier about saying that it's all seasoned). I am planning on burning the newer oak next winter. However, I would think that the two cords that I brought with me should be good since it's been sitting on pallets for 2 years.


The more I think about this the more I'm starting to believe that my house is too well insulated. I live close to a major highway so my presumption would be that they would over do on the insulation to dampen the noise. I get no drafts in the house. I do have some type of little door in the fireplace floor that goes to another little door in the basement (the foot of the chimney). I think this was the ash hole....or maybe it's for drafts? Not sure.

 

[Connecticut]

There’s no reason to modify the stove to get it to burn, you’ve got an ideal set up. Is it smoking out when you are attempting to get the fire going on start up? When you reload it?

I basically put 3 smallish logs in and then stack kindling on top. Then I take my yellow propane torch and get it well lit. Then I leave the door slightly ajar until everything catches. Once everything is burning well I close the door and leave it until it gets to 400 degrees (this takes a while). When it gets there then I start to close the air on the front in small increments. The glass gets black within 10 minutes to the point where I can't see through it.

My old Oslo I was able to get a fire going quickly, sometimes even with full green wood mixed in with good wood.

 

[begreen]

I had the Castine an almost identical setup with one big difference, it was in an old farmhouse. It could be the stove is starving for air. Does the stove have an OAK connected? If you crack open a nearby window or door an inch, does the behavior improve?

 

[Connecticut]

Does the stove have an OAK connected? If you crack open a nearby window or door an inch, does the behavior improve?

Hey, sorry but not sure what an OAK is. Is it the separate kit they sell for the back so it grabs the outside air? If so then no it is not connected. I have the stove in the fireplace and was thinking about running an airpipe through the ash hole down into the basement and then into the garage which is very drafty. So basically the pipe would have to drop down about 5 feet and then run across another 8 feet into the garage. Not sure if that would even change anything since it seems like a long distance to run.

 

[begreen]

Yes, OAK = outside air kit. The distance is not too long for an OAK. Run it with 4" pipe. First, try opening a nearby window an inch and see if you note a difference. FWIW, in new construction in WA state, an OAK is required for stove and fireplace installation.

 

[Connecticut]

Yes, OAK = outside air kit. The distance is not too long for an OAK. Run it with 4" pipe. First, try opening a nearby window an inch and see if you note a difference. FWIW, in new construction in WA state, an OAK is required for stove and fireplace installation.

Yeah let me try it with the window open. I just always thought that would defeat the purpose since I'm running heat but at the same time pulling in cold air. But I guess a test would be good to see if it works and then proceed with the OAK.

 

[bholler]

Yeah let me try it with the window open. I just always thought that would defeat the purpose since I'm running heat but at the same time pulling in cold air. But I guess a test would be good to see if it works and then proceed with the OAK.

Yes it is just a test to see if air supply is the problem. If it improves things then a permanent solution can be found

 

[webby3650]

What happens if you don't start turning the air down so soon?
The baffle is seated correctly? Did you remove the wooden block that’s right inside the flue collar before you hooked the liner to it?

 

[Connecticut]

What happens if you don't start turning the air down so soon?
The baffle is seated correctly? Did you remove the wooden block that’s right inside the flue collar before you hooked the liner to it?

The fire is burning but very slowly...the glass gets very dirty at this point as well.

The baffle seems to be seated correctly as I'm able to twist those clamps into place. I don't think my stove came with a wooden block since I didn't see one. I had the collar off multiple times when I was moving the stove in and out of the fireplace. In order for me to hook up the stove I have to slide the collar over the pipe and then attach to the stove. When they delivered the stove it was fully assembled and they got it in with an electric dolly that climbed the stairs itself.

 

[webby3650]

If the block was there you should have seen it, it’s vertical just inside the flue collar. It’s prevents the baffle from bouncing during shipping.
It comes fully assembled, with the exception of the fall away ashlip.

 

[XmasTreefarmer]

I'll be curious to see how cracking a window works for you. When I first built this house 30 some years ago, it was totally sealed - everything caulked, new windows and doors with brand new weather stripping, etc. Was burning an old VC Defiant at the time and it would not burn - it would go out unless I cracked a window. You might be experiencing the exact same thing.

 

[Connecticut]

I'll be curious to see how cracking a window works for you. When I first built this house 30 some years ago, it was totally sealed - everything caulked, new windows and doors with brand new weather stripping, etc. Was burning an old VC Defiant at the time and it would not burn - it would go out unless I cracked a window. You might be experiencing the exact same thing.

I'm hoping it's just that and that I can run the OAK kit down in the garage through the ash hole of the fire place.

 

[XmasTreefarmer]

I'm hoping it's just that and that I can run the OAK kit down in the garage through the ash hole of the fire place.

Seemed almost impossible to me that that was the issue, but it was like a miracle. I hope that solves the problem for you.

I remember the first few years that we'd forget about cracking a window at the beginning of the season and I'd be thinking, Why can't I get this fire burning? Then I'd remember and jump up and crack a window and off it went!

No such thing as an OAK for that stove, but the little bit of air coming in by cracking the window, was no more than would have been pulled in if the house was just a little less well sealed

 

[Connecticut]

Seemed almost impossible to me that that was the issue, but it was like a miracle. I hope that solves the problem for you.

I remember the first few years that we'd forget about cracking a window at the beginning of the season and I'd be thinking, Why can't I get this fire burning? Then I'd remember and jump up and crack a window and off it went!

No such thing as an OAK for that stove, but the little bit of air coming in by cracking the window, was no more than would have been pulled in if the house was just a little less well sealed

Thanks. I'm itching to get home from work soon and then will try to start a fire again with a window or door opened. We'll see. I was actually going to use my iphone decibal meter first by putting it inside the stove while it's not lit and then putting it in again with the door opened. Technically the draft should make it louder and the decibal meter picks it up. Now I'm just being silly I guess.

 

[XmasTreefarmer]

Using the dB meter sounds like something I'd think of! LOL! Hopefully you'll just see the fire take off!

I only had to crack the window like 1/4" at the most. And probably a good idea to put a pencil or something in there to be sure it stays open. I remember now that sometimes opening a door in the house would pull the window closed and the fire would be funky again.

God I can go on and on .... but check for any bath fans running or even a radon mitigation system. Anything that is exhausting air from the house. Good luck!

 

[SpaceBus]

Using the dB meter sounds like something I'd think of! LOL! Hopefully you'll just see the fire take off!

I only had to crack the window like 1/4" at the most. And probably a good idea to put a pencil or something in there to be sure it stays open. I remember now that sometimes opening a door in the house would pull the window closed and the fire would be funky again.

God I can go on and on .... but check for any bath fans running or even a radon mitigation system. Anything that is exhausting air from the house. Good luck!

My cookstove needs the window open, but only from a total cold start, and just to get the fire started. Some houses are weird. We tightened our house, but with two wood stoves we need a bit of a boost at times.

 

[lml999]

I'm hoping it's just that and that I can run the OAK kit down in the garage through the ash hole of the fire place.

There's probably a building code that prohibits an air supply delivering garage air into living space...for the obvious reasons. You want outside air as the source.

 

[Connecticut]

There's probably a building code that prohibits an air supply delivering garage air into living space...for the obvious reasons. You want outside air as the source.

I'm not sure on the code here in CT, would need to look it up. However, wouldn't that be better than getting the air from behind the stove? My garage is extremely drafty and the temps in there are probably 20 degrees different than my house/basement. The garage is attached to the house. I'm just throwing random thoughts out there so I appreciate your advice.

 

[Connecticut]

Ok so I'm back with some results. It looks like the fire burned much better last night after leaving the house window opened but it's still not as good as my old Oslo. The temps do not get up on the stove past 450 degrees. The glass was also black today when I woke up (I had the lever 25% opened). I had the window to the outside opened for a good hour and once I closed the stove door I also closed the house window. I took some pictures of how the fire looked and how it changed once I closed the stove door. I am also attaching how the stove is inserted into the fireplace (pic taken after I finished installing so different day).

I will try to get it going a few more times and then I might explore the idea of attaching the OAK kit.

If anybody has any other ideas then please let me know. Would taking the Baffle 2 from the top make a difference? It's the little plate that sits on top of the baffle that can be taken out very easily.

 

[lml999]

I'm not sure on the code here in CT, would need to look it up. However, wouldn't that be better than getting the air from behind the stove? My garage is extremely drafty and the temps in there are probably 20 degrees different than my house/basement. The garage is attached to the house. I'm just throwing random thoughts out there so I appreciate your advice.

Here's the problem. You're creating an air pathway from the garage to living space.

Consider the worst case scenario.

Someone leaves a car running in the garage. The stove is cold and the door is open.

Given the right temperature and drafting conditions, you will pull car exhaust into the house.

Remember, CO is heavier than O2, and the incoming air is probably still cooler than house air, so it will not go up the chimney. It may kill you.

Please, find a different source for outdoor air.

I've seen, first hand, how easy it is for CO to migrate from an attached garage to living space on a cold night. Fortunately our CO detectors were in the right place and had fresh batteries. While the kids were scared by the alarm, they loved the flashing lights and the firemen trooping through the house in full gear.

 

[XmasTreefarmer]

Well some progress! That is good. Couple of thoughts:

As you know from your Oslo, Jotul says to put your stove top therm on any of the 4 corners. I assume it's the same for the Castine. The corners can vary as much as 150 degrees F on my Oslo. If you have your therm on one of the "cooler" corners, you might be getting a better fire than you think.

And as I mentioned in one of my previous posts - I had to keep a window open, just a crack, or the fire would go out. Not just struggle - it would go out. Seems that your stove burned pretty well in that first hour or so and then you closed the window. Thinking that maybe this weekend when you are home, you can start the fire in the morning, leave the window open, and watch it through a full burn cycle. It might provide some clues.

If having the window open a crack is not the solution to this - then could there be something wrong with the connection to the chimney or the chimney itself? I just find it strange that your brand new stove won't burn correctly. I don't have the Castine, but it seems like it should breath much like the Oslo did.

I should add that you don't to be considering the OAK if you can't solve this by having a window open. There is nothing magical about the OAK - it simply brings in outside air in a different way. If an open window won't solve your issue, an OAK will not solve it either.

 

[Connecticut]

Here's the problem. You're creating an air pathway from the garage to living space.

Consider the worst case scenario.

Someone leaves a car running in the garage. The stove is cold and the door is open.

Given the right temperature and drafting conditions, you will pull car exhaust into the house.

Remember, CO is heavier than O2, and the incoming air is probably still cooler than house air, so it will not go up the chimney. It may kill you.

Please, find a different source for outdoor air.

I've seen, first hand, how easy it is for CO to migrate from an attached garage to living space on a cold night. Fortunately our CO detectors were in the right place and had fresh batteries. While the kids were scared by the alarm, they loved the flashing lights and the firemen trooping through the house in full gear.

Thanks for the heads up. I call it a garage but I never park in there (it's just my tools and little workshop). But I'll try to find a different place to vent if I do install the OAK.