Can I shave some brick?

[ultrapellet]

Hi, I've got my eye on a used Castile insert stove, but my opening is 1 inch short. Looking at how my fireplace is set up, I'm wondering if I can shave off some brick to make it fit.

There are bricks coming off the front of the fireplace that I could cut in half, but I just want to see if this is a crazy idea that is obviously going to start a fire (or if it's reasonable assuming all goes well).

I realize that cutting the bricks in half will be no small task, but I made a small test cut and think I can do it. Then I'd re-skimcoat over the brick to hide any imperfections.

Here's a view from inside the fireplace (you can see that the hearth(?) is higher than the floor of the fireplace):



A view of everything from the outside:


Thank you for any ideas.

 

[Dr.Faustus]

I can only speculate that it might work. I think what i would do is use a diamond blade on either a circular saw or angle grinder and cut grooves through the brick close together. once the grooves are cut, use a chisel and break off the tabs. then either smooth out with the chisel or a diamond cup attachment to smooth it out.

This will be an extremely dusty endeavor, so be sure you wear a respirator and goggles. Ive cut brick before and you do not want to be breathing in the dust or have it get in your eyes. ask me how i know!

as for the fire hazard, well it depends on how much brick will be left on the bottom when you are done, and what the manual calls for in regards to fire resistance.

Hope this helps!

 

[ultrapellet]

Thanks Dr. Faustus that does help (great name BTW, feels like a Faustian project to get my new-to-me house 100% perfect, which is of course impossible).

The only thing I could find in the manual is:

"Hearth Extension
If employing a hearth extension, any parts or materials used in construction must be non-combustible"
and..
6 inches of "Floor protection hearth extension from door opening"

Everything else is about clearances to the top, sides, back, and front.

The fireplace installer here also said it'd be fine, but I wanted a second opinion since it's my house and not his. It seems like 1.5 inches of brick/mortar with a concrete skimcoat is non-combustible. But manuals aren't always crystal clear to me. Beyond the edge of the hearth is another foot or so of tile.

Thanks for the tips on cutting. I also tested some spare bricks in the garage yesterday with a multi-tool (hopefully less dust than a grinder) and got a small preview. I like your idea of grooves and knocking out the pieces.

 

[jotul?]

I obviously don't know what's under the surface of the hearth, but is generally much easier and faster to remove the hearth top and replace it with bricks that have been cut to the height required. Or you could buy solid paver brick that are half the thickness of a standard brick and lay those for a hearth top. Another advantage is that you can pick the brick color and texture you like.

 

[ultrapellet]

Thanks jotul? we talked about that, and really the only reason I am hesitant is that I'm scared of what I'll find under the brick if I remove it.

I might be unnecessarily scared... but shaving the brick down feels less intrusive. It's a 70+ year old house with a few surprises.

I guess it's worth asking: ideally there'd just be a layer of mortar under the brick I guess? So then would I just put some more mortar on top of the old mortar and lay the thinner bricks?

Thank you - that is the cleanest way to do it.

 

[jotul?]

What is that room built on? Slab, crawl space, full basement, etc. Something has to be holding that fireplace and hearth. It's unlikely that the hearth is built directly on a wooden floor, because no matter how stout the wood is, it flexes, or at least expands and contracts, and masonry doesn't like to flex and it expands and contracts much less than wood. Ideally, that hearth has a good foundation and you could simply chisel the hearth top off and lay a new top. See what's under there. Take pictures.

 

[Dr.Faustus]

The multi-tool should be a bit cleaner, but the diamond blade on a spinning angle grinder or circular saw would be insanely faster. I have one of those multi-tools. I love it for flush cutting, and for adding new outlets in drywall where there wasn't one before but I've only tested it on wood and drywall so far.
Good luck with the new to you house. The work never stops! ever! I've been at it for 10 years.

 

[ultrapellet]

The work never stops! ever!

Thanks again. Yes I'm still on the fence on whether or not I miss having my condo... Once all the structural/moisture things are under control I know it'll be great.

 

[ultrapellet]

See what's under there. Take pictures.

Thank you for the suggestion. That was actually one of the nicest trips I've ever made to the crawlspace (because I just figured out that the worst of the termite damage wasn't really on an important floor joist - it's just part of the fireplace structure). Anyway...

The hearth is over crawlspace. From what I can tell, there is mortar above the wood in the crawlspace, so the bricks must be sitting on that mortar? There were even a few small chips of broken brick in one of the cracks. Pictures for reference:

Big picture view. The hearth comes straight out from the chimney:


Since Halloween is coming up, you need a scary picture. This is the outer piece that the termites got. It's not destroyed all the way up, but the bottom is pretty bad:


Hard to capture, but this is looking UP from the ground along the chimney brick. You can see in the crack what I think is mortar:


Thanks again

 

[ultrapellet]

Also, the hearth only goes out about a foot from the crawlspace, but the section in the picture (of the crawlspace) is maybe 2-3 feet wide. Again, after the brick(?) hearth, there's another 18 inches or so of tile (which extends out to where that termite joist is).

 

[Ranger72]

I'd take the inch from the top, it'll be easier. It'll be a dusty mess, try to set up plastics and utilize at shop vac

 

[jotul?]

Ouch. That is masonry sitting directly on the wooden floor. Is insulated hearth protection required for your stove or ember protection only? If ember protection only, you could peel up the existing hearth, screw down a sheet of hardi backer or concrete board and install paver brick or tile hearth top. If you need insulated hearth protection, you will have to peel up the existing hearth anyway, as masonry has no insulating value. It will eventually warm up to whatever the temperature is around it. So hopefully you only need ember protection.

 

[ultrapellet]

Thanks, good to konw

I haven't been able to find anything about insulation. The manual is here, and seems to say/show that you can put a 2x4 under the stove (page 10) or cut out the floor of a "factory-built" fireplace if necessary. So from what I gather there's not much heat at the bottom.

It is a Quadra-Fire Castile model if that's any help.

 

[jotul?]

I'm not familiar with pellet stoves at all. I am a wood stove guy myself, but I am also a bricklayer by trade, and I know that if you hired me to lower that hearth I would do it by replacing it. Find out what your stove requires and that will determine your course of action.

 

[hossthehermit]

I do not see this endeavor ending well.................

 

[ultrapellet]

Thanks jotul?, just got a quote for $800 or so to do that. We'll probably pass if that's the only option. I know wood stoves require a lot more clearance.

I do not see this endeavor ending well.................

Hoss, what specifically would you be concerned about?

Thanks again.

 

[ultrapellet]

For anybody following along, I tried cutting and quit early. The test cuts all went well, so yesterday I got ready to go big and get it all done.

Either I hit some firmer brick or the blade dulled. Either way, it was going to be a bigger project than I'm willing to take on. I don't need the stove - just wanted it - so didn't want to add any headaches or expenses if it wasn't going to be easy.

Fortunately you'd never know any of this happened unless you stick your head in the fireplace and look back out (I started cutting from the inside out, basically what you'd see in the first picture above, and never actually took out a chunk). A good inspector might notice when I sell, but that's the least of his worries when it comes to the masonry around here.

Thanks for the ideas.

Edited to add: again, somebody else might try this someday... Dust was no problem. Obviously I didn't do significant cutting, but I set up a plastic "fort" around the fireplace, opened the damper, and turned on the swamp cooler to pressurize the house.