I have had some dealers tell me to buy a non-catalytic stove due the cost of the catalytic converter and the fact that I will need to replace it in about 3-4 years? Thoughts? Thanks
cat vs non-cat
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Hes right its been beaten to death. As far as replacing them I wouldn't care if I had to replace it yearly. It still would be worth it to me. That's how much
a cat is an advantage to me from the performance of my stove in my opinion. Iam a soft wood burner and it helps me get those long controllable burn times.
I think the design of the particular cat stove also makes or breaks the difference. In my stove manual it specifically states over and over don't be afraid to load your stove to the max. that tells me they are confident with there stoves control/air design.
a cat is an advantage to me from the performance of my stove in my opinion. Iam a soft wood burner and it helps me get those long controllable burn times.
I think the design of the particular cat stove also makes or breaks the difference. In my stove manual it specifically states over and over don't be afraid to load your stove to the max. that tells me they are confident with there stoves control/air design.
Replacing the burn tubes and baffles/fiber boards in non-cat stoves costs more than third party cats and my bet is that they ain't gonna last any longer than a cat does.
If you like the stove, I wouldn't let a cat put me off buying it.
You'd only need to replace it after 7 - 10 years, depending on how much you burn. If you are a 3 cord a year person, you might move out of your house before the cat needs replacing. I think most cats are warranted for total replacement if they fail within two years, and prorated for seven.
The main thing is, do you like the stove that has the cat?
Cats burn different than non-cats. Typically a bit slower, although not necessarily, depending on the stove, chimney draft, etc. But it typically shows less flames in the visible portion of the box since the secondary cat combustion is usually behind a metal plate. This might put you off if you like seeing lots of flames. It doesn't bother me. I feel like I save a few sticks of wood by keeping the fire burning slower.
One is not necessarily better than the other. At least not absolutely. I think most would agree that a cat requires a bit more attention to fire than a non-cat, and that can make the learning curve steeper, especially for a newbie. This translates to potential headaches for dealers who may be asked to do more hand holding than for non-cat stoves.
Do a search of the forum and start reading. There is material-a-plenty to help you decide, or at least to confuse you further. You probably won't know which is truly best for you, or which you like better, until you've owned them both.
You'd only need to replace it after 7 - 10 years, depending on how much you burn. If you are a 3 cord a year person, you might move out of your house before the cat needs replacing. I think most cats are warranted for total replacement if they fail within two years, and prorated for seven.
The main thing is, do you like the stove that has the cat?
Cats burn different than non-cats. Typically a bit slower, although not necessarily, depending on the stove, chimney draft, etc. But it typically shows less flames in the visible portion of the box since the secondary cat combustion is usually behind a metal plate. This might put you off if you like seeing lots of flames. It doesn't bother me. I feel like I save a few sticks of wood by keeping the fire burning slower.
One is not necessarily better than the other. At least not absolutely. I think most would agree that a cat requires a bit more attention to fire than a non-cat, and that can make the learning curve steeper, especially for a newbie. This translates to potential headaches for dealers who may be asked to do more hand holding than for non-cat stoves.
Do a search of the forum and start reading. There is material-a-plenty to help you decide, or at least to confuse you further. You probably won't know which is truly best for you, or which you like better, until you've owned them both.
I am using a Woodstock Keystone, which has a cat. I find I have to mess around with this stove less than my prior non-cat stove. I seem to remember always having to play with the air intake on my prior stove in order to maintain the amount of heat I wanted. No so with the Keystone. I was also concerned about the fire display, but with the Keystone the only time there seems to be fewer flames is when I damp the stove down real low, which I could never do with my previous non-cat stove.
I'd bet that's not true.
My neighbor's on year 6 with his Quad non-cat and he's yet to replace anything but a few firebricks.
The tubes on Quad units are warrantied for life. The baffle board can run $50-$80 and I'm not sure on the insulation blanket.
If the unit is not over-fired, and the baffle is not mishandled it should basically last forever.
If the unit is not over-fired, and the baffle is not mishandled it should basically last forever.
I just love how this debate comes up every so often. There still seems to be a misinformation out there about cat stoves. I had a local stove dealer ask me what kind of stove I had, I told him I bought a woodstock catalytic last year. He was surprised and thought no one made them anymore, everyone told him they were no good and old inferior technology. Of course I set him straight.
Going on my 3rd season with my cat, I couldn't be happier. My previous non cats were too finicky and less efficient in my opinion.
Going on my 3rd season with my cat, I couldn't be happier. My previous non cats were too finicky and less efficient in my opinion.
It's all personal preference. Cat stoves require a new cat every 3-8 years depending on the stove and use. Non cat's have some consumables but not many.
If you are going to buy a non-cat stove I recommend staying with something with proven technology like Quadrafire, PE, Englander or the like. As for cat stoves I've only personally dealt with Blaze King and they're good stoves.
If you are going to buy a non-cat stove I recommend staying with something with proven technology like Quadrafire, PE, Englander or the like. As for cat stoves I've only personally dealt with Blaze King and they're good stoves.
i hate cat stoves. thats why i now burn two of them 
seriously though, if you are the type that hates to do any maintenance type thing yourself, then maybe changing a cat every several years would be considered something to avoid. but if you aren't against that, i would buy the stove you really like the most regardless of its burn technology.
seriously though, if you are the type that hates to do any maintenance type thing yourself, then maybe changing a cat every several years would be considered something to avoid. but if you aren't against that, i would buy the stove you really like the most regardless of its burn technology.
The only thing we have replaced in our 30+ year old VC Defiant is the wood that goes inside it, and we can get a good 6-7 hour burn with seasoned OAK. Did a dollar bill test the other day and the seals are still solid.
Buy quality and you can't go wrong.
Adendum: We replaced the wood grate, the original got a little thin and that was 2 years ago.
Buy quality and you can't go wrong.
Adendum: We replaced the wood grate, the original got a little thin and that was 2 years ago.
nshif said:
And a hearty "welcome to the forum, new member" to you too! (Search "ettiquette")
Cat vs non-cat: talk to as many poeple as you can, do as much research/reading as you can, in general get educated to the issues involved, then make your decision on the factors important to you. Maybe cat/non-cat ends up being not an issue to you, or maybe it becomes an issue where you would favor one way or the other.
Just get as much input as you can, so you can start deciding which input is valid and which is BS.
This is an easy question. They both work pretty well. CFM is having problems with Eberburn. Stoves with secondary tubes and CAT stoves both seem to do a good job. People who have them both, like them both. All stoves are going to need maintenance. Buy on reputation, dealer reliability and attitude and have fun burning. Search this site when you find the specific stove you like to see what other's experience with it is. ;-)
When I first found hearthnet I had stove problems on the cat stove I had bought. I really didn't even know the stove had a cat until after I got it home and read the manual.
My problems had nothing to do with the cat, but after posting to hearthnet, I began to regret my cat stove purchase. (Anybody miss the old Ceilidh forum software? I don't, but I remember when I could read all the posts and get a feel for who everyone was. Too much traffic these days. Ahhhh, the good old days... but I'm wandering...)
I got my problems fixed with elkimmeg's help, and lots of advice from others, but I was assaulted by so many "anti-cat stove" posts (at least, that's how I remember it), that I felt like I might have made a big mistake buying what was referred to as "old technology". I was the lone ranger back then. Burning my cat stove and getting familiar with it. Forced to defend it on occasion.
Then, my b-n-l bought a new "non-cat stove". I was envious. He had more fireworks and it seemed like it started faster. At least, it seemed to get to secondary burn faster.
Fast forward to now. There are lots of us cat stove burners on hearthnet now. And I'm glad this technology hasn't been eradicated by marketing buzz and what I'll call stove shop sales psychology for the buyer without a clue.
After burning my cat stove for four (4) years now, I have liked it better every year. I use less wood every year. And I get more heat into the enormous room it warms each year for the same amount of wood, or less. I guess that suggests a learning curve, but it's nice for a product to function better each year than the other option.
I burn my stove nearly every day. Usually between 8 and 16 hours. Median probably around 10 hours per day. On mild days my wife always asks me, "are we going to have a fire tonight"? She loves the cat stove, even though she thought she would have trouble with "a stove" instead of a fireplace since she wouldn't be able to "hear and smell the fire". Boy has she changed her tune. She LOVES the heat! I never hear anything about "hearing" the fire anymore. Life is good.
And my brother-in-law? Well, he still hasn't had his first fire this year. And he may get better at firing his stove with more usage, but I've seen his stove suck logs at what I'd subjectively call twice the feed rate as my cat stove. So I'm very happy with my cat stove. But like I said, there was a learning curve for me. I know others who have had less of a curve, and those who have had more.
One thing you don't want to do with a cat stove is throw a bunch of wet wood onto a really hot bed of coals and then immediately engage the cat. Stuff like that may seem like common sense to us long time cat users, but for a newbie, it may seem like a good idea on a cold night, when little or no thought was given to building a nice dry wood pile the year before, and POP! goes the catalyst. This isn't really a problem with non-cat type stoves, but I still prefer my cat stove. I feel I burn less wood than I otherwise would, and splitting it all by hand makes that seem even more important to me.
Still, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a non-cat stove either, if I liked the styling and it fit into the hole the best.
My problems had nothing to do with the cat, but after posting to hearthnet, I began to regret my cat stove purchase. (Anybody miss the old Ceilidh forum software? I don't, but I remember when I could read all the posts and get a feel for who everyone was. Too much traffic these days. Ahhhh, the good old days... but I'm wandering...)
I got my problems fixed with elkimmeg's help, and lots of advice from others, but I was assaulted by so many "anti-cat stove" posts (at least, that's how I remember it), that I felt like I might have made a big mistake buying what was referred to as "old technology". I was the lone ranger back then. Burning my cat stove and getting familiar with it. Forced to defend it on occasion.
Then, my b-n-l bought a new "non-cat stove". I was envious. He had more fireworks and it seemed like it started faster. At least, it seemed to get to secondary burn faster.
Fast forward to now. There are lots of us cat stove burners on hearthnet now. And I'm glad this technology hasn't been eradicated by marketing buzz and what I'll call stove shop sales psychology for the buyer without a clue.
After burning my cat stove for four (4) years now, I have liked it better every year. I use less wood every year. And I get more heat into the enormous room it warms each year for the same amount of wood, or less. I guess that suggests a learning curve, but it's nice for a product to function better each year than the other option.
I burn my stove nearly every day. Usually between 8 and 16 hours. Median probably around 10 hours per day. On mild days my wife always asks me, "are we going to have a fire tonight"? She loves the cat stove, even though she thought she would have trouble with "a stove" instead of a fireplace since she wouldn't be able to "hear and smell the fire". Boy has she changed her tune. She LOVES the heat! I never hear anything about "hearing" the fire anymore. Life is good.
And my brother-in-law? Well, he still hasn't had his first fire this year. And he may get better at firing his stove with more usage, but I've seen his stove suck logs at what I'd subjectively call twice the feed rate as my cat stove. So I'm very happy with my cat stove. But like I said, there was a learning curve for me. I know others who have had less of a curve, and those who have had more.
One thing you don't want to do with a cat stove is throw a bunch of wet wood onto a really hot bed of coals and then immediately engage the cat. Stuff like that may seem like common sense to us long time cat users, but for a newbie, it may seem like a good idea on a cold night, when little or no thought was given to building a nice dry wood pile the year before, and POP! goes the catalyst. This isn't really a problem with non-cat type stoves, but I still prefer my cat stove. I feel I burn less wood than I otherwise would, and splitting it all by hand makes that seem even more important to me.
Still, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a non-cat stove either, if I liked the styling and it fit into the hole the best.
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