CE Approved Residential Wood Stoves in the US?

[rmassuser]

Hi, I am building a new mud room attached to the house and I would like to find a good small wood stove. It won't be part of the conditioned space but it will be in a large and well sealed room above a garage. US approved stoves must have a 6" flue according to EPA and I think this is overkill, as the amount of draft (17" flue pipe) would be far in excess of what a stove would require to occasionally heat 300 sq. ft. I would bring in outside air and/or open a window a crack while using the stove, and using a smaller flue pipe could be efficient and more attractive.

I did a search online for 4" and 5" flue stoves and found one made in China, mainly for the European market. It has CE approval but not UL approval and the web site claims 80% efficiency. They are actually sold in the US on the wayfair.com web site for $1900. But it is probably not worth it as the wholesale price is just $450 for the same unit. I would be happy paying $900 for such a stove and I think my municipality might allow it as long as it is certified somewhere. Just like with electrical products, the building code might be ok with something that has undergone testing and standards.

I would also consider going with the kimberley wood stove but it is a bit pricey. Also the cubic mini is an option but again, with that 4" flue it doesn't have any certifications that I am aware of.

Any ideas or experiences with a European-certified stove, installing in the US? This might be a way for me to get the capacity and building department approval I need. I need to act fast as the room will be drywalled in about 4 weeks.

Thanks!

 

[EbS-P]

Will this build be permitted and inspected? Are you wanting 100% certainty that your insurer will cover a loss of the stove is found to be at fault?

 

[rmassuser]

Will this build be permitted and inspected? Are you wanting 100% certainty that your insurer will cover a loss of the stove is found to be at fault?

Permitted, yes. I talked to the building inspector and the only thing they care about is clearance to combustibles matching what it says on the back of the stove.

Certainty the insurer will cover the loss? no. What I plan to do is incorporate a lot of fire resistance in the materials used close to the stove. Non combustible trim, heat shield, masonry on the ground, rock wool insulation in the ceiling, and 5/8 drywall. So we want to minimize the chance of ever having to even file a claim.

 

[Todd]

Jotul 602 takes a 5” pipe

 

[bholler]

Ok there is no requirement that stoves in the us use 6" flues that is just what the majority do because that is the standard here. Using something different would hurt sales. There are a few using 8" and a few using 5".

And new installs are absolutely required to be done with ul listed appliances by code. Just because it passes inspection doesn't mean it is actually code compliant. And doesn't mean your insurance won't use that code violation to reject a claim if they can.

 

[bholler]

BTW have you priced out 4 or 5" class A chimney? It will cost way more than 6"

 

[rmassuser]

I know the chimney will be pricey so I will take my time and scour the used market whether I get 4", 5" or end up going with 6" pipe. One more thing...

To avoid having a giant double wall chimney pipe right outside my back door I have a few more options.... I could build an insulated chase for the chimney pipe and run it from the ceiling area right up through the first bay of my attic to the roof line. When I get into the attic I have about 6.5 feet before it will reach the roof and I could go through it or angle it with a 45 to go through the wall and then continue rising above the roof. It would be a benefit to have a well insulated chase for the chimney just to offer fire protection for the rest of the attic. The cost of construction is minimal since everything will be open and there is plenty of spare lumber lying around, plus a few extra batts of rock wool. So I have a few options.

 

[EbS-P]

Permitted, yes. I talked to the building inspector and the only thing they care about is clearance to combustibles matching what it says on the back of the stove.

Certainty the insurer will cover the loss? no. What I plan to do is incorporate a lot of fire resistance in the materials used close to the stove. Non combustible trim, heat shield, masonry on the ground, rock wool insulation in the ceiling, and 5/8 drywall. So we want to minimize the chance of ever having to even file a claim.

Code says only UL listed appliances can be installed. Ask your insurance if the will allow an unlisted heater

 

[begreen]

I'm not sure if this applies here but in addition to the points above note that it is not allowed to put a wood stove in a sleeping area.

 

[rmassuser]

Before you comment, please keep in mind that the second sentence of the post says that "It won't be part of the conditioned space."

So it is residential but it is not part of the heated building envelope.
So my understanding is that the code allows a wood stove here. It is certainly not a sleeping area, it is un heated.

However it is insulated.

So I think my building department allows a wood stove in this situation and if it is CE listed and approved, why would there be a problem, as it has gone through testing for fire in those European countries. I am concerned about fire safety for my own protection. I am not so concerned about what the insurance company says, as I will take all steps needed to not burn down my own house.

 

[EbS-P]

Before you comment, please keep in mind that the second sentence of the post says that "It won't be part of the conditioned space."

So it is residential but it is not part of the heated building envelope.
So my understanding is that the code allows a wood stove here. It is certainly not a sleeping area, it is un heated.

However it is insulated.

So I think my building department allows a wood stove in this situation and if it is CE listed and approved, why would there be a problem, as it has gone through testing for fire in those European countries. I am concerned about fire safety for my own protection. I am not so concerned about what the insurance company says, as I will take all steps needed to not burn down my own house.

United States​

The CE mark is not recognized in the United States. Products that are sold in the United States have to comply with relevant federal or state-enforced standards and regulations, such as CPSIA for children’s products or FCC 47 CFR Part 15 for electronics.

The closest we get to recognition in the US is that some states have adopted RoHS, but only in terms of substance restrictions. The CE mark has no validity or status in the US.

Source
https://www.compliancegate.com/countries-ce-mark-accepted/

I’m not saying you can’t do what you are proposing. And I’m sure it’s been done before. It’s just not the code compliant course of action. Your probably 100 more times likely to loose the garage in a fire do your vehicle starting the fire than the unlisted wood stove, but you cannot control what the fire inspector puts in his report nor how your insurance company interprets it or what conclusions they come to. You control what appliances get installed.

Just do a 12 kBTU Mr cool mini split and be done with it. It would be cheaper I imagine.

 

[kborndale]

Before you comment, please keep in mind that the second sentence of the post says that "It won't be part of the conditioned space."

So it is residential but it is not part of the heated building envelope.
So my understanding is that the code allows a wood stove here. It is certainly not a sleeping area, it is un heated.

However it is insulated.

So I think my building department allows a wood stove in this situation and if it is CE listed and approved, why would there be a problem, as it has gone through testing for fire in those European countries. I am concerned about fire safety for my own protection. I am not so concerned about what the insurance company says, as I will take all steps needed to not burn down my own house.

If your not concerned with burning down your house or with insurance paying you then why do you care about code?

 

[sneefy]

"It won't be part of the conditioned space."
So it is residential but it is not part of the heated building envelope.

I would think this part matters the most for your insurer:

room attached to the house

If it's attached to the house, it's part of the home. If you use a stove not compliant to code, a fire happens there and spreads to the rest of the home, you risk the insurer denying your claim.

I am not so concerned about what the insurance company says, as I will take all steps needed to not burn down my own house.

This statement makes zero sense. If we could control everything we wouldn't need insurance.

 

[rmassuser]

it's too bad there are so few options for smaller stoves made in the US

Jotul 602 takes a 5” pipe

maybe an older JOTUL ?

 

[EbS-P]

it's too bad there are so few options for smaller stoves made in the US

maybe an older JOTUL ?

Can you safely diy install ANY woodstove cheaper than you could install this 1000$ mini split if you bought new chimney??
Your friend has shared a link to a Home Depot product they think you would be interested in seeing.

MRCOOL Advantage 3rd Gen 12,000 BTU 1 Ton Ductless Mini Split Air Conditioner and Heat Pump with Mini Stat 115V/60Hz A-12-HP-115B-MS - The Home Depot

This system is meant to be installed by a HVAC technician. The newly designed 3rd generation Advantage Series, with improved efficiency ratings up to 19 SEER, delivers high performance comfort from the

www.homedepot.com

 

[begreen]

I'm thinking a small Jotul or Morso would do the job.