ceiling of alcove

[robman]

Hi
I have posted a few times in the process of building my new alcove where we previously had a fireplace. I am now almost done with the framing and am framing the ceiling of the alcove, which is also the floor of the attic (not finished but used for storage). There is a possibility that someone will walk above the alcove so I am using heavy gauge 2x6 steel framing, 14 gauge for the tracks and 16 gauge for the joists that span a bit under 4 feet between supports. An engineer said that is fine structurally. So I have two questions. First, I am using metalbestos double wall chimney and the framing is not combustible. What piece do I need to run the chimney into the attic through the metal framing? Secondly, the ceiling is 9 feet up. Will I need something between the steel framing and the plywood attic subfloor? (I was thinking a layer of durock or micore)

Thanks again for all of your guidance,

Rob

 

[bholler]

Does the stove manufacturer require it be noncombustible? It sounds like you are making tgis whole process way to complicated

 

[begreen]

This will need a flat ceiling support kit and an attic insulation shield. Selkirk has a kit package that might most of the parts needed - part FCK.

 

[robman]

Thanks Begreen and Bholler.
Unfortunately, when my local inspector came to see it he had no idea and the stove company hash;t been much help. I figure make it bombproof and it should pass inspection. Begreen, the top of the 2x6 framing is at the subfloor level and we may not put any insulation there near the chimney. We are re-roofing the house and will probably put insulation in the rafters and have the attic semi-conditioned. But regardless there will be no insulation over the subfloor as in your photo. this case, would the fire stop joist shield work? One issue with the full kit is that we will be putting on a standing seam roof, which I believe requires a different kind of jack and support.

Thanks again

Rob

 

[bholler]

Thanks Begreen and Bholler.
Unfortunately, when my local inspector came to see it he had no idea and the stove company hash;t been much help. I figure make it bombproof and it should pass inspection. Begreen, the top of the 2x6 framing is at the subfloor level and we may not put any insulation there near the chimney. We are re-roofing the house and will probably put insulation in the rafters and have the attic semi-conditioned. But regardless there will be no insulation over the subfloor as in your photo. this case, would the fire stop joist shield work? One issue with the full kit is that we will be putting on a standing seam roof, which I believe requires a different kind of jack and support.

Thanks again

Rob

You still need an insulation sheild. It keeps stuff from falling in around the pipe

 

[begreen]

No need to buy the kit, but you will need most of the components except the flashing. For a standing seam roof use a proper metal roof flashing like the one made by Excel.

 

[robman]

No need to buy the kit, but you will need most of the components except the flashing. For a standing seam roof use a proper metal roof flashing like the one made by Excel.

Hi Begreen and BHoller
Thanks again. In a previous post, Begreen recommended I use double wall starting at the stove (It is an enclosed alcove). Will the FCK kit still work with double wall or is that for single wall up to the ceiling and double wall in the attic? And price wise, am I better off buying a kit and then replacing the flashing or buying pieces individually?

 

[begreen]

The kit's stove pipe adapter is for single-wall. It may be that the kit does not offer a less expensive option than buying parts separately for your install. I posted it so that you could see what parts it takes to make up a complete install. Price the parts out at your supplier and see. If you are shopping online try this place, they are pretty reasonable. Ask for Sean to put together a package for you and maybe compare DuraTech piping when comparison pricing. https://woodstovepro.com/

 

[robman]

Hi again
I talked to Sean and he was great--will be buying much of the remaining things from him. I have also now durocked the inside of five sides (cannot do front yet). I also put thinset and durock tape on joints etc. Some has shrunk so that you can still see the fiberglass tape. Should I put on a second coat?

I am hoping to start on framing the convection walls and will do so out of structural steel framing as they will have the weight of the tiles etc. I will probably stop the rock a foot shy of the ceiling if that is kosher. This upper level, as well as some of the base plate track for the framing will be visible and I was thinking of painting it black. Is there a high heat primer you'd recommend before using a stove type black paint?

The inspector came by as I was finishing the exterior walls of the alcove and seemed to think everything will be OK with my hopefully bombproof design. Thanks again for all the help

Rob

 

[robman]

HI I took a few years off from the project as I was out of the house (due to a divorce). Am back now and have tiled inside and the front of the firebox up to where the mantel will go. I am planning on re-roofing soon and need to figure out the piping through the attic and above the roof. I already have the 6" attic insulation shield as well as 6" finish support package. I am thinking about framing a box around the chimney in the attic and on the roof (with a brick veneer above the roofline) and possibly adding the 6" hood vent pipe in the box. Is this OK/acceptable? I will be using all double wall metalbestos, which I already have. Thanks again,

Rob

 

[begreen]

Is this a finished attic where the chimney goes through? It's ok to vent the boxed chase but not much benefit if the attic ceiling is uninsulated. The main thing is that any combustibles used in its construction are at least 2" away from the chimney pipe. You might want to leave one side open until after inspection.

 

[robman]

Thanks Begreen. The attic for now will be unfinished but will have a plywood floor and I am installing skylights so down the road may become a finished attic. 2" from the pipe is great. that way I can clad the box in ply or some nice wood (I'm a woodworker) instead of backer board. Above the roofline I will probably do backer board and brick veneer. I am assuming that with a boxed chimney, again as long as the combustibles are more than 2" from the chimney, I won't need any special products for the opening, just quality flashing

Thanks again

Rob

 

[bholler]

Thanks Begreen. The attic for now will be unfinished but will have a plywood floor and I am installing skylights so down the road may become a finished attic. 2" from the pipe is great. that way I can clad the box in ply or some nice wood (I'm a woodworker) instead of backer board. Above the roofline I will probably do backer board and brick veneer. I am assuming that with a boxed chimney, again as long as the combustibles are more than 2" from the chimney, I won't need any special products for the opening, just quality flashing

Thanks again

Rob

You would flash the chase like a regular chimney in that case.

 

[bholler]

Inam a little confused about your alcove design. Is the whole front open or is it closed off partway down?

 

[robman]

You would flash the chase like a regular chimney in that case.

It is closed off. I think it was another thread but I had lots of help designing it. I can upload a photo of it without the mantel and just the stove in there for placement but no chimney yet. I'll try to do that tomorrow.

 

[bholler]

It is closed off. I think it was another thread but I had lots of help designing it. I can upload a photo of it without the mantel and just the stove in there for placement but no chimney yet. I'll try to do that tomorrow.

Does the stove manufacturer allow for that?

 

[begreen]

Link to previous 2018 thread

prepping an alcove with convection wall in earthquake country

Hi I am building an alcove where we removed a 1910 fireplace (new foundation and excavation) for a seismic upgrade. We are less than a mile from the Hayward Fault. The alcove is 57" wide by 31" deep and 9 feet to the ceiling. I have a Lopi Patriot but may upgrade to a larger and better stove at...

www.hearth.com

 

[bholler]

Ok robman have you checked with lopi to see if this install complies with their requirements?

 

[robman]

Hi bholler. I did speak with Lopi but they were not very helpful. I did what people here seemed to call serious overkill (convection walls on three sides, double wall for entire length of chimney, a grille at top for heat to escape) etc. I still need to buy a blower for the firebox and am wondering if there is a good aftermarket one or if I should try to find a Lopi specific one. I am attaching photos to give a clearer idea of the alcove. The outcome is fairly similar to the drawing I posted on my other thread which begreen linked in the previous message (thank you, begreen). Also have passed the necessary inspections. Thanks again for everyone's help.

Rob

 

[begreen]

It's ok as long as the entire alcove is non-combustible, including the ceiling. The Patriot is one of the few stoves that have thorough alcove specs for both combustible and non-combustible enclosures.

Just to verify how this was built: Is the alcove ceiling still at 84" or more and the entire front face construction non-combustible?

PS: Did you read the thread on non-combustible mantels?

 

[old_]

That looks fantastic.

 

[bholler]

Hi bholler. I did speak with Lopi but they were not very helpful. I did what people here seemed to call serious overkill (convection walls on three sides, double wall for entire length of chimney, a grille at top for heat to escape) etc. I still need to buy a blower for the firebox and am wondering if there is a good aftermarket one or if I should try to find a Lopi specific one. I am attaching photos to give a clearer idea of the alcove. The outcome is fairly similar to the drawing I posted on my other thread which begreen linked in the previous message (thank you, begreen). Also have passed the necessary inspections. Thanks again for everyone's help.

Rob

View attachment 296880 View attachment 296881

It's ok as long as the entire alcove is non-combustible, including the ceiling. The Patriot is one of the few stoves that have thorough alcove specs for both combustible and non-combustible enclosures.

But it isn't. The inside may be but the exterior is covered in combustible materials. It may be perfectly safe I have no clue but it definitely concerns me.


Convective walls only help if there is somewhere for that heat to go. I know you have a vent at the top but that isn't at all the same as an open front.


It absolutely does look fantastic but I have some safety concerns

 

[begreen]

But it isn't. The inside may be but the exterior is covered in combustible materials. It may be perfectly safe I have no clue but it definitely concerns me.

Yes, I was wondering about the crossing "beam" below the top grille and whether this was on the surface or a real wood beam. The rest appears to be Durock.

 

[bholler]

Yes, I was wondering about the crossing "beam" below the top grille and whether this was on the surface or a real wood beam. The rest appears to be Durock.

The trim on the corners and cabinets on the side certainly are combustible

 

[begreen]

The trim on the corners and cabinets on the side certainly are combustible

They appear to be outside of the required 18" side clearance, but robman would have to verify. It also looks like they could be somewhat shielded by the stove being fully recessed in the alcove.