Alcove nightmare

[Cyounce1]

So I recently had some work done by a local fireplace company. I'm new to this but it doesn't seem right. The top right is a drywall cut that I said I would repair. But the exposed wood doesn't seem right to me. They claim that it is safe and within clearances and code. I have an understanding that they did a 1" air gap between the first sheet of cement board and the second layer. My concern is where that air is going in the air gap. It's going straight up into this void space right? There's no air gap between the ceiling cement board and the wall cement board. The wall cement board goes up about 6 inches past the ceiling durock. The bottom air gap shouldn't be an issue to keep once the floor is finished, that cement board can just be cut a little higher to maintain 1". Am I just completely out of my scope of knowledge or does this raise some red flags? If wrong can it be saved? Pretty clueless when it comes to this that's why I came here. Thank you

 

[Cyounce1]

Could a vent or something like a fan maybe be put above the alcove like where a mantle would be just so that hot air doesn't get trapped up there?

 

[stoveliker]

Clearances are to the nearest wood, regardless of what is in front of it.
If the manual of the stove allows, having a vented shield (i.e. 1" from the wall, with gaps below and above, to convect away the air behind the shield - and I would want that to vent into the room, not in some void above, for safety (visibility) reasons), could decrease the clearances.
The clearances are set by the stove you will install and should be in the manual (that you should be able to download from the website of the mfg.
Also alcove installs can be iffy, some stoves don't give cleances for them in the manual, and then it may be questionable to (legally) install the stove in an alcove. Your alcove is more open though than one in which one has a wall left and right.

So,what stove did you plan to install?

 

[Cyounce1]

Clearances are to the nearest wood, regardless of what is in front of it.
If the manual of the stove allows, having a vented shield (i.e. 1" from the wall, with gaps below and above, to convect away the air behind the shield - and I would want that to vent into the room, not in some void above, for safety (visibility) reasons), could decrease the clearances.
The clearances are set by the stove you will install and should be in the manual (that you should be able to download from the website of the mfg.
Also alcove installs can be iffy, some stoves don't give cleances for them in the manual, and then it may be questionable to (legally) install the stove in an alcove. Your alcove is more open though than one in which one has a wall left and right.

So,what stove did you plan to install?

Thank you so much for the reply. The stove I was looking at is either the hearthstone green mountain because of the ceiling to floor clearance or one of the drolets that states ceiling to floor would fit if I had a heat shield. I've been having trouble with the vertical clearance since it's only 65". Drolets states with proper sheet metal it would reduce ceiling to floor by 18". Also I apologize but could you explain the vented shield you mentioned. I would like it to vent into the room instead of the void space. I really appreciate the reply.

 

[Cyounce1]

Thank you so much for the reply. The stove I was looking at is either the hearthstone green mountain because of the ceiling to floor clearance or one of the drolets that states ceiling to floor would fit if I had a heat shield. I've been having trouble with the vertical clearance since it's only 65". Drolets states with proper sheet metal it would reduce ceiling to floor by 18". Also I apologize but could you explain the vented shield you mentioned. I would like it to vent into the room instead of the void space. I really appreciate the reply.

Open to any stove that would fit vertical clearance wise

 

[stoveliker]

Side shields are extra (non-combustible, so metal or cement board or so, can tile it over) sheeting that is 1" offset from whatever (drywall) is behind it. That 1" allows for anything that gets warm to start convecting up (i.e. removing heat) - but that only works if the shielding does not touch the floor but ends 1" above the floor, AND has space at the top for the warm air to vent out of.

 

[Cyounce1]

Side shields are extra (non-combustible, so metal or cement board or so, can tile it over) sheeting that is 1" offset from whatever (drywall) is behind it. That 1" allows for anything that gets warm to start convecting up (i.e. removing heat) - but that only works if the shielding does not touch the floor but ends 1" above the floor, AND has space at the top for the warm air to vent out of.

Okay so that's where I am with the cement board except there's a 1" gap on my ceiling cement board but the wall cement board goes up past the ceiling meaning all that air from the gap at the bottom is just going up into the void space bypassing the cement ceiling gap. Any recommendations? Also I plan to gap the metal roofing 1" off the cement board with ceramic spacers and cut the metal to match the cement board gaps at the bottom and top so that the metal isn't flush or holding that air. Do you think that's necessary?

 

[stoveliker]

I'm not entirely following the wall issue; if you cut the front (shielding) board 1" shorter, and close the ceiling, the air will come back into the room (alcove)?

I am also not following the ceiling situation. In the end I think it'd be best if you have the ceiling shield come out of the alcove by 1" and have it a 90 bend up a bit so you can't look into the 1" spacing above the ceiling shield from the room (that 90 bend up would prevent that - if your clearances allow for a mantle, you could put a mantle beam there (there are also noncombustible mantles, even ones that look like wood), and have the air from the ceiling shield flow up behind the mantle beam?

But for all this, I think you first have to make a choice in stove (probably based on waht they allow), and then think of what to do regarding shielding or not.

 

[Cyounce1]

I'm not entirely following the wall issue; if you cut the front (shielding) board 1" shorter, and close the ceiling, the air will come back into the room (alcove)?

I am also not following the ceiling situation. In the end I think it'd be best if you have the ceiling shield come out of the alcove by 1" and have it a 90 bend up a bit so you can't look into the 1" spacing above the ceiling shield from the room (that 90 bend up would prevent that - if your clearances allow for a mantle, you could put a mantle beam there (there are also noncombustible mantles, even ones that look like wood), and have the air from the ceiling shield flow up behind the mantle beam?

But for all this, I think you first have to make a choice in stove (probably based on waht they allow), and then think of what to do regarding shielding or not.

Okay 10-4 sorry my terminology is not great. I tried to send a direct message but video files are too big.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I think I’d start with the stove first also. It’d be a tough pill to swallow if it all had to be torn out because the manual said no or wanted something different for alcoves.

 

[bholler]

Why did you build an alcove without having a stove picked to build that alcove to? What specs was it built to?

 

[Cyounce1]

Why did you build an alcove without having a stove picked to build that alcove to? What specs was it built to?

It was built to maximum clearance possible is what I was told

 

[Cyounce1]

I think I’d start with the stove first also. It’d be a tough pill to swallow if it all had to be torn out because the manual said no or wanted something different for alcoves.

I went with the hearthstone green mountain 60

 

[Cyounce1]

Went into the store front and they said there wouldn't be trapped hot air above because there is a draw of air out of the void space. I picked up a green mountain 60 that I plan to put in once everything is finished.

 

[stoveliker]

You'd be loosing heat that goes into the void to - do nothing? It'll either get trapped there, or leak into an attic or elsewhere - whereto is that draw out of the void space?

I'd seal the alcove and if you need shields, add those as "floating" cement board in front/below the wall/ceilings.

Also, no need for ceramic spacers - a simple copper water line piece (or anything else that's metal) of 1" works wonders.

I see the green mountain 60 (which I don't know much about) has an option for an outside air kit. If there is nothing behind the wall on the right towards the outside wall, you could add one there. Just a thought.
Especially if your home is well-sealed.

The good news is that the manual does mention alcove installs, so no ambiguity there.

Regarding clearances, how are you going to orient the stove in that triangle space?

I do see a minimum floor to ceiling of 61.5" foor unprotected surfaces. And NFPA-211 guidelines for protected surfaces (I presume that would be an offset shielding as we discussed - but check).
The good news is that if you have 65", you don't need shielding on the ceiling afaics.

With the pipe going straight up, you have no issues with initial rise before a 90 into the wall (and a vertical clearance for the horizontal section of the pipe), so that's good too.

The manual also allows for the 66% reduced clearances as per NFPA -211, if your code inspector allows.

So, I think the next steps are to figure out how to orient the stove, mock up the stove with a piece of cardboard, measure clearances, figure out on page 10 whether those are good, or whether shielding is needed.
Then design what you want, get your code inspector (and after that home owners insurance) to sign off (literally - i.e. in writing), and the go and carry out that design.

That would be the safest way imo.