Chimeny liner/fireplace insert question (HELP!)

[Farva0311]

This is a problem that I have been avoiding for about 7 years. I bought this house (built in 1970's) knowing the original clay liner was cracked. I currently have a fireplace insert inside the opening. I was able to aquire enought 7" diameter stainless steel pieces to drop a rigid liner down my clay chimney. NOW here is the problem. When I pulled out the insert to look up into the chimeny, it is a straight shot up but the dampner opening is about 6X27 with the piece sticking up in the center where the original dampner was. (it's gone now,just an opening) The clay liner stops about 3 feet above the dampner area, which is well out of reach. My original plan was to drop my new liner down to the bottom of the clay liner with a plate installed to fill most of the void around the liner and then seal the top with a second plate using high heat silicone. NOW I'm seeing on the web that this may not be up to fire codes even thought that's what the original owners were doing. I understand that there is a problem with creasote building up and have no problem keeping up with cleaning this area and the chimney each year. Can anyone help? I'll look at any ideas. I'm doing it myself because I had one guy give me a quote of $2000 and I don't have that in my budget. I would like to use the fireplace but not at the cost of safety.

 

[Todd]

Not sure I understand, do you have what they call a direct connect where you run pipe from the stove up to the first clay tile above the damper? Sounds like you could just drop a flex liner all the way down the chimney and connect to the insert and install chimney top plate and cap. You can buy 25' kits on line for under $500 and if your a little bit handy you can do it yourself, just make sure you use the same size as the exhaust collar of your stove and make sure you measure the ID of your flue tiles so the liner fits. Also if your tiles are in bad shape you want to insulate the liner.

 

[Farva0311]

Right now there is NOTHING connecting the insert to anything. Plus the hole in top of my insert has nothing to connect a liner to. My original plan was to install every thing back the way the other owners had it but with the addition of the new stainless liner down the old clay liner.

Also, in order to run any type of liner all the way down to my insert, I'll have to go through the old rectangular dampner. (proverbal problem of big round liner through smaller rectangle hole!)

If I'm not explaining something right, I'll be happy to post to any questions if it will help figure this out.
Thanks!

 

[KevinM]

The bottom of a flexible liner goes in a stove adapter which slides into the opening in the insert. It needs three screws to hold it in place, they can be put in from the inside, or outside if there is a lip, or brackets can be used.

The damper can be hard to cut through especially depending what space is available behind it. Different techniques use cutting torch, hacksaw, reciprocal saw, angle grinder, or snapping pieces off with a wrench.

Do you have a manual for the stove? It will give details about installation that the previous owner might not have followed. If you don't know the model post a picture and someone will probably be able to identify it.

Kevin.

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

(broken link removed to http://woodheatstoves.com/chimney-liner-handout-p-12036.html)



here is some helpful info on liners

 

[Farva0311]

The brand is "Kindlewood." Cutting through the old damper makes sense and I would understand connecting a flexable liner to the insert this way. That leads me to these questions:

1. My wife has said that at some point she would want to convert from the insert back to a regular fireplace. If I cut the old damper out, would this still be possible? Would it be easier to go ahead and replace a damper into the existing hole and convert it now? (I was hoping to avoid this for now because of my budget and having to but a new front in addition to everything else.)

2. Is there a place that will sell a piece of flexable liner about 4 to 5 feet long to connect from my stainless liner to the insert? (I would also need the brakects KevinM mentioned to connect the flexable liner to the insert from the inside.) My new stainless liner is 7.25" in diameter and the hole in the top of my insert is 6.75" in diameter. Is there an adapter to go connect these two sizes?

Thanks for all of the help!

 

[onesojourner]

I would have your wife read up on all the negatives of an open fire place before you make any kind of plans to use one.

 

[Todd]

Ok, I think I understand what you have. This is what I'd do, first I'd pull that 7" partial liner out, cut or break out the damper, then I would reline with 6" flex with insulation wrap all the way down to your stove. If there is a little slop where it fits into the stove collar there may be an adapter or you could screw it in and fill gap with furnace cement. There shouldn't be too much of a gap since 6" flex has a larger outside diameter. If you decide to go back to an open fireplace you can either replace the old damper which would be a major pita or install one of those chimney top dampers that is a breeze to install. If that 7" liner won't come out there may be room to slide the 6" down even with the insulation wrap.

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

The brand is "Kindlewood." Cutting through the old damper makes sense and I would understand connecting a flexable liner to the insert this way. That leads me to these questions:

1. My wife has said that at some point she would want to convert from the insert back to a regular fireplace. If I cut the old damper out, would this still be possible? Would it be easier to go ahead and replace a damper into the existing hole and convert it now? (I was hoping to avoid this for now because of my budget and having to but a new front in addition to everything else.)

2. Is there a place that will sell a piece of flexable liner about 4 to 5 feet long to connect from my stainless liner to the insert? (I would also need the brakects KevinM mentioned to connect the flexable liner to the insert from the inside.) My new stainless liner is 7.25" in diameter and the hole in the top of my insert is 6.75" in diameter. Is there an adapter to go connect these two sizes?

Thanks for all of the help!

#1> the damper can be cut out and a top sealing damper can be used in the future to use the fireplace, but you will likely need to cut out some of the throat area as well, assuming this is a masonry fp. did you check out the liner pdf i linked to? assuming its masonry some metal will probably get cut out limiting future use as an open fireplace

#2> is this a 7" flue? measuring inside diameter? there are adapters. what brand of stainless 7.25 liner do you have? ridgid?

 

[Farva0311]

Wood Heat Stoves: For some reason the link wouldn't work and I tried to go to the home page but couldn't find where you were trying to send me with the link. Right now my current clay liner is about a 10 1/2" X 10 1/2" (inside dim) liner. The stainless liner is sections that a friend gave me. I would admit that I'm not sure if they are for a chimney liner but they are a heavy guage stainless and fit together pretty well. I started a second link asking what I would need to do if I decided to not use the insert and convert to a regular fireplace. If I do that, would I need to do anything other than use my 7 1/4" liner and replace (either top or bottom) the damper?

Thanks for all of the help!

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

Wood Heat Stoves: For some reason the link wouldn't work and I tried to go to the home page but couldn't find where you were trying to send me with the link. Right now my current clay liner is about a 10 1/2" X 10 1/2" (inside dim) liner. The stainless liner is sections that a friend gave me. I would admit that I'm not sure if they are for a chimney liner but they are a heavy guage stainless and fit together pretty well. I started a second link asking what I would need to do if I decided to not use the insert and convert to a regular fireplace. If I do that, would I need to do anything other than use my 7 1/4" liner and replace (either top or bottom) the damper?

Thanks for all of the help!

(broken link removed to http://woodheatstoves.com/chimney-liner-handout-p-12036.html)
sorry for the bad link...try this.

a 7" liner will not be large enough to vent an open fire place, the 10x10 is probably the correct size for the fp opening

 

[Farva0311]

Thanks for the second link. I was looking at the 3rd page. I have almost EXACTLY the diagram on the right with the exception of my damper has been removed. That diagram really shows what I have. With that diagram in mind, would it still be wrong for me to just drop my new liner down and not connect it to my insert?

If the 7" liner isn't large enough to vent my set up as a fireplace (removing the insert) I'm not opposed to tearing out part of my existing damper frame. It will just mean that I will have to get a piece of flexable liner to connect from my 7 1/4" liner to my 6" insert opening. Do you know of anywhere that would sell a flexable piece about 4 to 5 feet long? I plan on checking a few stores in my area tomorrow.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

[quote author="Farva0311" date="1247123716"]would it still be wrong for me to just drop my new liner down and not connect it to my insert?

Do you know of anywhere that would sell a flexable piece about 4 to 5 feet long? I plan on checking a few stores in my area tomorrow.

quote]

#1, no. the liner needs to be connected to work
#2
i sell liner at my shop by the foot. the 6x7 ss increaser and flex to appliance adapter too. haven't had time to load liner parts to the site yet.
if you dont have any luck let me know, i can look up pricing/shipping

 

[Farva0311]

THANKS A TON! If I don't find anything locally, I'll definetly be in touch!

While I'm asking a million questions, here's one for you all.

I went to one of the local shops (when I was thinking this was going to be easier than I know know!) and asked about any type of fireproof insulation to help insulate and seal around my insert. (What I had in mind was strips closer to regular wall insulation without the paper backing.) The folks at the shop said the only thing they had was a type of tape that was about 1 1/2" wide. (This was also one of the MAJOR fireplace stores in my area. So much so at least 3 other shops recommended I try them when I continued to look!) SO, is there such an animal that I'm asking about that might be a seasonal item??? I know, I'm asking a million questions! Thanks for taking time to answer! You've been great!

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

little strips of fiberglass are used for around fireplace insert surrounds. no paper, i sometimes stick it to the back of the panel with high temp silicone.

 

[Farva0311]

Sounds about what they had. Thanks again for the advise and I'll be in touch if I dont come up with anything local!