Chimney clean-out door whistles… Is that ok?

[Christopix]

Hello members,

After spending more hours than I care to admit lurking around on hearth.com, I've learned a lot. I've been around wood burning heat pretty much all my life and learned almost everything from my Dad. I believe he taught me fairly well because I haven't burned the house down yet, and my cold starts are almost smoke free…

But, it is clear that there is much that I don't even know I don't know.

So, the chimney clean-out door: Is it okay that it whistles? (The elbow on the connector pipe does as well actually.)

The stove and clean-out are in our basement. Stove is on the west side of the chimney and the clean out the east side. The chimney is is the center of the house and goes up approximately 20 feet. Fairly open concept basement (and house). Chimney was relined with SS several years ago by the chimney sweep who cleaned it this past spring. Despite spending our first winter is this house (last year) with some very wet wood, and burning with an old All-Nighter (which is the exact stove I grew up with), the chimney sweep said that our chimney was in much better shape creosote wise than he thought he might find. He commented "you must know how to burn wood… most new homeowners don't have the hang of it and it gets messy the first year or two".

Now we are burning a Lopi Endeavor. I know EPA stoves are more temperamental to things being just right. Which is why I'm checking in about a few items.

Thoughts?

Thank you in advance!

 

[billb3]

can it carry a tune ?


I suppose whistling could be used as an indicator that no one has left it wide open ........

 

[Christopix]

can it carry a tune ?


I suppose whistling could be used as an indicator that no one has left it wide open ........

I suppose you are right. I just want to confirm that it is okay for there to be an obvious leak (causing the whistling). Just want to know if I should replace the door somehow or seal it closed or something.

 

[altmartion]

it's hard to say if it is bad without readings but it is a sign of leakage. I would seal it up. I doubt it is anything major but the best chimney is leak free.

 

[webby3650]

No, it is not ok for the door to whistle. That means its sucking air through it, which cools your flue as well as reduces the draw through the stove.
You said it has a liner, it shouldn't be able to suck air from the bottom at all. I would assume that there is no cap on your Tee. Sweeps sometimes will leave them off so they can clean it from the ground. It's a very bad practice, the cap is an important part of the system.
If it has a T cap, then the top plate must not be sealed down. It should be stuffed with cerimac wool insulation at the top around the liner to stop air flow. Then the top plate sealed down.
Can you check both of these areas?

 

[billb3]

If it is whistling it is sucking air.

You could seal it with some silicone but unless I'm missing something with your stove set up ( OAK sucking through former fireplace ash clean out grate) your house is losing air / acting as a chimney because the stove alone isn't likely to be using enough air to make a small gap in the cast iron door whistle.

 

[Christopix]

it's hard to say if it is bad without readings but it is a sign of leakage. I would seal it up. I doubt it is anything major but the best chimney is leak free.

Thank you for your reply.

Could you say more about "readings"? And to seal it up, how would you do that? It doesn't seem to get hot at all. When a raging fire is going, I can open the door and I can comfortably put my hand inside (not a regular practice).

 

[Christopix]

No, it is not ok for the door to whistle. That means its sucking air through it, which cools your flue as well as reduces the draw through the stove.
You said it has a liner, it shouldn't be able to suck air from the bottom at all. I would assume that there is no cap on your Tee. Sweeps sometimes will leave them off so they can clean it from the ground. It's a very bad practice, the cap is an important part of the system.
If it has a T cap, then the top plate must not be sealed down. It should be stuffed with cerimac wool insulation at the top around the liner to stop air flow. Then the top plate sealed down.
Can you check both of these areas?

Our chimney does have a cap on the top of the chimney.

With regard to the "T-Cap" I'm not sure I have one of those. I simply have a door to the very dead bottom of my chimney where flaked off junk can be scooped out. This is the door that is whistling. The door is a swinging steal/cast-iron which latches shut. Though shut, it does not seal and therefor whistles a bit. Are you saying that it is okay to put "ceramic wool" inside this clean out area? If anything (creosote etc) falls down upon it will it still be safe?

Thank you all for the help!

 

[webby3650]

You said it had been lined with stainless steel. When that was installed, it should have had a Tee at the bottom with a SS piece that comes through the thimble. The stovepipe would connect to that. Is this what you have?

 

[Christopix]

You said it had been lined with stainless steel. When that was installed, it should have had a Tee at the bottom with a SS piece that comes through the thimble. The stovepipe would connect to that. Is this what you have?

Yes. The stove pipe connector is attached to the thimble and there IS a Tee at this point. It is below this point of the chimney Tee where the clean-out door is located (approximately 3 feet below the Tee). It is this door that is whistling.

 

[webby3650]

That means the installer skipped a very important part, the Tee cap.
I just fixed one like this for a friend. One time it caused his stove to run away like a freight train. Another time it simply bypassed the stove completely, filling his entire house with smoke.
It can cause a lot of issues. I cut a hole in the back of the chimney, right at the Tee and put a cap on it.

 

[altmartion]

I would seal it up with foam seal tape. you know, the tape you would use to seal the entrance door on the house. get the thin stuff. as mentioned above the liner should be checked it is whistling as well. it could be a connection and may be able to fix it with tin tape. try to see a cap on or off the tee. it drives me nuts when these guy's don't out them on only to benefit themselves. I don't run into this problem here. they should put some sort of law in place to stop it.

 

[begreen]

You want no air leakage at the door if the tee is open. Duct tape will work temporarily. Silicone makes a very nice gasket for cleanout doors. Make sure the surfaces are clean and then run a bead around the perimeter of the frame where it meets the door. Close the door and latch. Let the silicone setup at least 24 hrs before opening again.

 

[webby3650]

they should put some sort of law in place to stop it.

There is! Just no one to enforce it.

 

[altmartion]

There is! Just no one to enforce it.

I kind of figured that was the case. we just have too many hacks out there. I can't believe I don't have these issues here. my area is loaded with hacks. if you have a 6n1 screwdriver and a $5 hf multimeter you are a heating contractor. lol

 

[CenterTree]

webby is on the RIGHT track here. OP, check for a TEE CAP first.
If there is no cap, then THAT is why you here whistling.....air is being sucked from that area. (and it shouldn't be).

 

[Christopix]

Thought it might help if I show photos. Pardon the poor quality:

 

[Christopix]

I'm not understanding where my Tee-cap is located. When my home inspector did his walk through, I was right by his side, and he opened the clean-out door, and took a picture right up the chimney saying that he was impressed with how it looked. He never mentioned anything about having any additional Tee. While I understand the inspector could have overlooked something, or maybe didn't know about it all together, my sense is that he was ridiculously critical of everything in the house - the stove or chimney wasn't anything he flagged other than to say have it cleaned every year by a qualified professional.

Further thoughts?

 

[oconnor]

The inspector should not have been able to see up the liner from the clean out door. The liner is to be a closed system, with a plug at the bottom of the tee. . To clean it, you remove the plug and sweep, remove the waste and replace the plug. Otherwise the flue draws from outside air instead of from inside the stove. Hope that helps.

 

[begreen]

We're guessing there is no cap on the bottom of the tee and instead it is open. If so, it may not be ideal, but this is not a rare setup. It does require the cleanout door to seal tightly with a gasket. Ideally when they put in the liner they would have added an extension on the bottom of the tee to just the top of the chimney cleanout door, then capped it there. But my guess is they didn't to save you the extra cost and be competitive. on the bid.

 

[altmartion]

does it even have a tee? maybe they just bent the liner and the stove connects directly to it. I see this quite a lot with water heaters.

 

[Christopix]

The inspector should not have been able to see up the liner from the clean out door. The liner is to be a closed system, with a plug at the bottom of the tee. . To clean it, you remove the plug and sweep, remove the waste and replace the plug. Otherwise the flue draws from outside air instead of from inside the stove. Hope that helps.

I didn't even know that… The inspector didn't even mention it being a problem… Wow!

Makes sense that a sweep skips that step as I'm sure it makes it easier for him to sweep the following year.

 

[Christopix]

We're guessing there is no cap on the bottom of the tee and instead it is open. If so, it may not be ideal, but this is not a rare setup. It does require the cleanout door to seal tightly with a gasket. Ideally when they put in the liner they would have added an extension on the bottom of the tee to just the top of the chimney cleanout door, then capped it there. But my guess is they didn't to save you the extra cost and be competitive. on the bid.

You are correct, it is open at the end of the Tee. I'm positive there IS Tee as when I installed the thimble for my Lopi I noticed that it connected to a section of pipe separate from the liner. Unfortunately, this work was done before many years before we bought the house last year. I know the former owner was very much a DIY'er and tried to save money everywhere, the neighbors still talk about him being a bit "cheep" so it doesn't surprise me that he took the cheep way out.

So how do I make this right? I'm in this for the long haul so I want to make sure I have things as efficient as possible and safe as possible.

Can I put the Tee in myself? Is it too late?
Will I have to wait until heating season is over to do this kind of work?
What is the best way to seal the door until spring? (What should I use to seal it?)

Thank you greatly for your help forum members!

 

[begreen]

So how do I make this right? I'm in this for the long haul so I want to make sure I have things as efficient as possible and safe as possible.

Can I put the Tee in myself? Is it too late?
Will I have to wait until heating season is over to do this kind of work?
What is the best way to seal the door until spring? (What should I use to seal it?)

Thank you greatly for your help forum members!

It is not an emergency, just seat up the cleanout for now. When you have a safe time to get up on the roof in spring is soon enough. It will take removing the tee snout, pulling the liner up and adding the extension with a cap on it. Attach to bottom of the tee and reinstall.Or you can just cap the tee with no extension and vacuum it out after each sweeping.

sealing info posted in #13:

You want no air leakage at the door if the tee is open. Duct tape will work temporarily. Silicone makes a very nice gasket for cleanout doors. Make sure the surfaces are clean and then run a bead around the perimeter of the frame where it meets the door. Close the door and latch. Let the silicone setup at least 24 hrs before opening again.

 

[webby3650]

The way to fix it would be to cut an 8.5"x8.5" hole on the back of the chimney right where the bottom of the Tee is located. Then you can put a clean out door over the hole after you install a Tee cap. It's very easy.i just did one and it took only 30 minutes.
There is no reason to ever remove the Tee cap! The stove pipe needs to be cleaned every time the chimney gets cleaned anyway. I don't understand how leaving the Tee cap off would be of any advantage if you are cleaning the entire system like it should be.