Chimney craftsmanship old vs new

[woodhog73]

My folks are in their 80s. They live out west and had a nice 2300sq ft home built back in 1968. They both still live in that home. Same one I was raised in.

I’ve been reading a lot about chimney issues. I was talking to my 80 yo dad and he mentioned that back in the 60s the best known local mason built his stone ( stone and granite ) chimney which is internal and goes through the center of the 2 story house and attic. There are 2 flues and 2 wood burning fire places. One upstairs and one down stairs. Beautiful full granite rock hearths and granite mantels. There was a slammed insert in the upstairs fireplace in the 1980s a better n bens model. No liner. They burned for about 8 years in the 80s and removed the better n bens.

We recently had both chimneys swept ( I take care of the house ) and a camera inspection. Everything looked great. The sweep commented about how well made the fireplaces and hearth structure was and how it looks better than most. Even with 8 years of an old slammer insert. Before we knew better.

Nowadays my dad burns about 2 or 3 fires a month in an open fireplace so it’s minimal.

Do most agree the craft of high end masonry fireplaces is being lost ? Does no one build stuff as high quality as they used too ? Sure the house is well built but the madonry structure is also very well built. Many many steps above the cheap heat form steel liner firebox type of masonry liner in my 1974 house ( before I put an insert in it )

 

[bholler]

My folks are in their 80s. They live out west and had a nice 2300sq ft home built back in 1968. They both still live in that home. Same one I was raised in.

I’ve been reading a lot about chimney issues. I was talking to my 80 yo dad and he mentioned that back in the 60s the best known local mason built his stone ( stone and granite ) chimney which is internal and goes through the center of the 2 story house and attic. There are 2 flues and 2 wood burning fire places. One upstairs and one down stairs. Beautiful full granite rock hearths and granite mantels. There was a slammed insert in the upstairs fireplace in the 1980s a better n bens model. No liner. They burned for about 8 years in the 80s and removed the better n bens.

We recently had both chimneys swept ( I take care of the house ) and a camera inspection. Everything looked great. The sweep commented about how well made the fireplaces and hearth structure was and how it looks better than most. Even with 8 years of an old slammer insert. Before we knew better.

Nowadays my dad burns about 2 or 3 fires a month in an open fireplace so it’s minimal.

Do most agree the craft of high end masonry fireplaces is being lost ? Does no one build stuff as high quality as they used too ? Sure the house is well built but the madonry structure is also very well built. Many many steps above the cheap heat form steel liner firebox type of masonry liner in my 1974 house ( before I put an insert in it )

No there are still plenty of high quality fireplaces being built now. And there were plenty of horrible ones built in the 60s and pretty much any other time period.

 

[webby3650]

Build quality has little To nothing to do with it. It only takes one flue fire to wreck the flue tiles. That better than bens was not much more than a barrel stove, it simply didn’t get a chance to build up the amount of creosote it takes to have a flue fire.

 

[woodhog73]

The better n bens was removed in the 80s they used it during the oil embargo of the late 70s and 80s to save money.

I have fond memories of cutting wood to help keep the wood stove going. But most recently was involved with getting the 2 flues swept and the guy really was impressed with the workmandhip he said the young kids nowadays are not going into the masonry trades. Then my dad chimed in about the guy who built his chimney and how well respected he was and how he overbuilt stuff never taking short cuts etc. that said my dad is 80 years old and this was way back in 1968. Lots changed since then

 

[webby3650]

The better n bens was removed in the 80s they used it during the oil embargo of the late 70s and 80s to save money.

I have fond memories of cutting wood to help keep the wood stove going. But most recently was involved with getting the 2 flues swept and the guy really was impressed with the workmandhip he said the young kids nowadays are not going into the masonry trades. Then my dad chimed in about the guy who built his chimney and how well respected he was and how he overbuilt stuff never taking short cuts etc. that said my dad is 80 years old and this was way back in 1968. Lots changed since then

I’m glad you have those memories and your dad has that experience to tell. Almost every generation and community has a local mason that excels in his work. I know many, proudly.

 

[woodhog73]

That said you don’t see too many new construction with masonry fireplaces being made. Too bad really. Sure on high end houses but on middle class more affordable houses you never see masonry fireplaces anymore. Just a bummer.

 

[bholler]

That said you don’t see too many new construction with masonry fireplaces being made. Too bad really. Sure on high end houses but on middle class more affordable houses you never see masonry fireplaces anymore. Just a bummer.

Not really a bummer they are horribly inefficient even when not in use they are usually a pretty big heat loss. I see the move away from fireplaces as a good thing.

 

[webby3650]

That said you don’t see too many new construction with masonry fireplaces being made. Too bad really. Sure on high end houses but on middle class more affordable houses you never see masonry fireplaces anymore. Just a bummer.

True. Masonry fireplaces have gotten too expensive for most folks, considering how inefficient they are, and a sheet metal replica can be installed for less than half the price..

 

[woodhog73]

Not really a bummer they are horribly inefficient even when not in use they are usually a pretty big heat loss. I see the move away from fireplaces as a good thing.

I know and understand. But perhaps I’m old school I just like seeing brick and morter or stone as opposed to fabricated chimneys with vinyl siding on them.

 

[bholler]

I know and understand. But perhaps I’m old school I just like seeing brick and morter or stone as opposed to fabricated chimneys with vinyl siding on them.

Ok so build a nice masonry hearth and chimney with a stainless liner for a stove. Dont wast the money on a fireplace that is a heat loss.

 

[bholler]

Or do a nice masonry veneer on the chase.

 

[woodhog73]

True. Masonry fireplaces have gotten too expensive for most folks, considering how inefficient they are, and a sheet metal replica can be installed for less than half the price..

Also agree. But I tell my wife all the time if we ever build new and have extra money my dream is to incorporate a masonry fireplace in the build. But who am I kidding that won’t ever happen.

With my folks 2 fireplaces it’s beyond the chimney it’s even down to the fire boxes. Very well made. 50
Years old and everything looks as tightly put together and in like new comdition. Just saying 50 years later the guy that did the original work might no longer be with us. But the fireplaces look pretty much like they did in 1968. That’s saying something.

 

[bholler]

Also agree. But I tell my wife all the time if we ever build new and have extra money my dream is to incorporate a masonry fireplace in the build. But who am I kidding that won’t ever happen.

With my folks 2 fireplaces it’s beyond the chimney it’s even down to the fire boxes. Very well made. 50
Years old and everything looks as tightly put together and in like new comdition. Just saying 50 years later the guy that did the original work might no longer be with us. But the fireplaces look pretty much like they did in 1968. That’s saying something.

There are still plenty being built today that will be the same.

 

[Microduck17]

Woodhog73. A chimney with siding on it had got to be the ugliest thing I've ever saw. Stainless class A looks world's better.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

[moresnow]

With my folks 2 fireplaces it’s beyond the chimney it’s even down to the fire boxes. Very well made. 50
Years old and everything looks as tightly put together and in like new comdition. Just saying 50 years later the guy that did the original work might no longer be with us. But the fireplaces look pretty much like they did in 1968. That’s saying something.

Hows about a pic or two Now that lively discussion and interest has been developed! I also have fond memories from sitting around mom and dads fireplace's. Both upstairs and down. I am fortunate enough to be able to still enjoy it a few times a year. Family Xmas used to be a hot SOB. Everyone crammed in the living room with a roiling fire going! Good times.

 

[bholler]

Woodhog73. A chimney with siding on it had got to be the ugliest thing I've ever saw. Stainless class A looks world's better.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I dont disagree but there are lots of ways tomake a chase look good.

 

[vwmike]

In my part of the world (western Canada). I haven't seen a new house built in 20 years or more with a masonry chimney, and only a couple with class A chimneys in chases. These days all the masons are putting the brick and stone on the outside of the houses as decorative cladding on the lower half.

 

[Ludlow]

I shouldnt bother to talk about it, but the master mason that built my parent's chimneys built them to draft and built them to last. Always had raging fires in them and they were never swept not even once (We did look through them top and bottom. Just no deposits to speak of). The fireboxes are deep and wide and after decades of use they arent even sooty and the firebrick and mortar is like new. The chimney tops are in amazing condition. The brick is corbelled out at the top for drip control. My Dad was always trying to find a way to make them efficient but without success. Eventually just put inserts in them. I know what you mean about open fireplaces, but stagecoaches were cool too. Nobody is building those either @woodhog73 .

 

[weatherguy]

Your parents sound like they have one similar to mine, waste of money but I didn't pay for it. The guy that started building my house before he ran out money was nice enough to have paid for it. I put a PH on the lower fireplace and the other one's never been used.

 

[woodhog73]

Your parents sound like they have one similar to mine, waste of money but I didn't pay for it. The guy that started building my house before he ran out money was nice enough to have paid for it. I put a PH on the lower fireplace and the other one's never been used.

All the houses in my folks neighbor hoods have masonry fireplaces. For 1968 they would have been houses that were I guess custom. Not entry first time buyer type. And their masonry beast goes right up the center of the house which is 2 stories. I can only imagine what it would cost nowadays. But in 1968 everyone built using masonry fireplaces.

What’s strange though is there are 3 flues. 1 each for the fire places and 1 for the gas furnace. I always thought you couldn’t vent gas in a flue next to wood. But it was 1968.

The downstairs fire box is huge. I think you could fit a smaller free standing stove in it, or the largest insert you could find. But my folks gave up wood burning in the 80s. Occasional fire in the open fireplace for the holidays is all.

 

[bholler]

All the houses in my folks neighbor hoods have masonry fireplaces. For 1968 they would have been houses that were I guess custom. Not entry first time buyer type. And their masonry beast goes right up the center of the house which is 2 stories. I can only imagine what it would cost nowadays. But in 1968 everyone built using masonry fireplaces.

What’s strange though is there are 3 flues. 1 each for the fire places and 1 for the gas furnace. I always thought you couldn’t vent gas in a flue next to wood. But it was 1968.

The downstairs fire box is huge. I think you could fit a smaller free standing stove in it, or the largest insert you could find.

No as long as they have seperate flues you can vent as many different appliances and fuels you want through a chimney

 

[woodhog73]

No as long as they have seperate flues you can vent as many different appliances and fuels you want through a chimney

Ok so I have a question I might post as a new topic. In my house I have 2 flues. The 2nd goes to a hearth in the basement. No fireplace but a thimble to hook up a wood stove. It’s a tiny flue and a I could never fit a liner in it for a modern stove. So I don’t use it and sealed it up to help with heat loss. I like the looks of a free standing gas stove. One of those fancy looking ones that look like a wood stove. So are you saying if I wanted to put a gas free stander and vent up my 2nd flue ( that’s tiny) I could do it ?

The gas stove would be used just for when guests are over. There is a 2nd living room and entertainment area in the basement. But it gets cold down there when I’m burning wood upstairs

 

[bholler]

Ok so I have a question I might post as a new topic. In my house I have 2 flues. The 2nd goes to a hearth in the basement. No fireplace but a thimble to hook up a wood stove. It’s a tiny flue and a I could never fit a liner in it for a modern stove. So I don’t use it and sealed it up to help with heat loss. I like the looks of a free standing gas stove. One of those fancy looking ones that look like a wood stove. So are you saying if I wanted to put a gas free stander and vent up my 2nd flue ( that’s tiny) I could do it ?

The gas stove would be used just for when guests are over. There is a 2nd living room and entertainment area in the basement. But it gets cold down there when I’m burning wood upstairs

Yeah sure you can. You may need a liner for it but no reason you couldnt. You may also be able to run a woodstove through the existing clay liner or remove the clay to make room for an insulated 6"

 

[woodhog73]

Yeah sure you can. You may need a liner for it but no reason you couldnt. You may also be able to run a woodstove through the existing clay liner or remove the clay to make room for an insulated 6"

The existing clay liner I did have inspected by a sweep with a camera. It is very clean. It has 3 minor verticals cracks. Sweep said probably from settling. The very last clay tile at the top of chimney shifted enough that it doesn’t line up with the tile below it. But it’s the top most clay tile.

What’s odd is the guy that lived here before burned a big pre epa wood stove in that flue. To try to heat the upstairs. It probably didn’t work. But the flue is tiny. Even busting the clay liner out I doubt a 6 inch liner will fit. Sorry I’d have to go and measure but I think it’s about 4”x5” rectangle.

Can a gas stove vent into a clay tile flue that small ? My other flue has my quad 3100 with 6 inch flex going most all winter and I just assumed I couldn’t use a gas stove in that flue. Now my wheels are turning cause I want heat and ambiance in the basement.

 

[webby3650]

That’s a pretty small flue. Typically if it’s an 8”x8” OD clay flue a direct vent stove can be adapted to it. If not, a few companies still make B vent stoves. A B-vent stove would still make great heat and have a nice fire.