Chimney Fell - Recommendations?

[layoric]

Hi all-

We came home this evening to find our chimney hanging by one of its roof brackets!

We have a coal stove, and the duratech 6" double wall stainless is going out the wall and around an eave, then a 30 deg. elbow brings it straight up. From there we had 14 feet of chimney. I have a 24" cricket from woodman's parts plus and HAD 4 roof brackets attached to our metal roof. The roof brackets were reinforced with 2 four foot re-bars each. Only one roof support remained connected to the roof, the others ripped right off.

I previously removed most of our 4 or 5 feet of snow from our roof a few days ago, well, I must have missed just enough, because we had a thaw today, and the entire back side of our roof is just about cleared of snow and ice. There was this huge piece of snow/ice still laying on the bracket which was holding the chimney above the ground, but it broke the 30 degree elbow in two. The 30 degree elbow was supported by TWO bracket straps going into the eave, and one turnbuckle. I also had a wire going the opposite direction into a stake in the ground.

My thought is that there was just to much weight up there, including the support braces on the roof. The snow chunk(s) just slid with such intensity and quantity that the brackets probably aided in its downfall.

It doesn't seem to hard to fix though. I'll order another 30 deg. elbow, and probably only use 6 or 8 feet of chimney pipe over the eave, leaving either 2 four foot sections or a four and a two left. The pipe is good, just a little dented on the outside, connects fine. Collars are unscathed.

My questions:

What's the best way to avoid this in the future? IE: How can I best shore up this admittedly poor choice for an install location? The installers were afraid to go through our metal roof, and this was the only way they'd do it, yes, they suck.

My thoughts were to:
A) install more crickets next to the existing one.
B) use heating coils up there, no snow=no problem.
C) have an enclosure built and then sided or stuccoed (how costly is that?).
D) be more diligent at removing snow (I busted my roof rake yesterday, and ordered another one just before. All before this happened, weird timing).
E) forget the whole thing, remodel the living room so I can put the stove so it will go straight up the roof (probably VERY costly).

Thanks for any input --

Kirk

 

[layoric]

So no ideas from anyone?
Found a place that sells the 30 deg. elbow picking up today so can put chimney back up.

 

[Roospike]

Holy smoke ..........

Is that chimney pipe held right up against your house ?

I vote E) forget the whole thing, remodel the living room so I can put the stove so it will go straight up the roof (probably VERY costly).

Why is the chimney pipe so tall from the house up ? to make total feet for the stove? something around it?


Here is some reading for you and also why i vote (E) option.

All about chimneys
(broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.org/chimneys/chimneys.htm)

Selecting and Locating a Chimney
(broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.org/chimneys/trichim.htm)

The Evil Outside Chimney
(broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.org/chimneys/evilchim.htm)

Also Kirk Mook , WELCOME to the hearth forum

 

[layoric]

Well, that's because we had many trees and had to account for backdraft. Now the trees are gone. So I was thinking about either a 6 or 8 ft chimney above that area of the roof.

 

[Roospike]

Well, that's because we had many trees and had to account for backdraft. Now the trees are gone. So I was thinking about either a 6 or 8 ft chimney above that area of the roof.

What is the suggested height of your chimney per your wood stove ? You will have to take off so many feet for every 90° you have.

Stove says 16' minimum for example , so you measure from the top of your stove to the top not counting your cap. If you have say two 90s or one "T" and one 90 then that takes off i think 4' so you get one 90 or "T" and then you have to take off for the second one.

Say your stove needs 16' of chimney , you have one 90 and one "T" so you now need 20' of chimney total to make of for the bend in the pipe. If you have read the links i posted you will see what the outside chimney does to a stove and what it does for draft.

Again , I would do the inside of the house chimney if you could , it would work better with your stove . it would look better on the house and it would have more support .

 

[DriftWood]

I would rebuild the setup to the proper length. Enclose it in its own insulated box top to bottom. Build a large ice breaker cricket. And still thy to keep the snow of the roof.

 

[Corie]

first thing I would do is lose the offset.


By moving the majority of the chimney system away from the support axis of the tee you're just creating a lot of extra pressure on the joint at that point.

 

[layoric]

Maybe I could move it through the roof later, but can't do it for a while. Is there a way I could shore up the chimney now? One of the supports was salvageable, and I found out I did need to add another 4 feet for the stove to operate best. Now it has 10 feet of chimney from the eave line (2 fours and a 2 footer).

I was thinking of a guide wire going from the chimney to the center of the roof, and also possibly some sort of extra support coming from the ground some how. I found something called elbow straps, but I think they're only for attaching to ceiling rafters or joists?

- Kirk

 

[slowzuki]

They sell flashing kits for metal roofs now, they install very easily. I installed mine through a snow covered roof in December and makes a very clean installation.

In the meantime, shortening the chimney may help but a load of snow on a metal roof can knock a lot of things over. Is the snow about done in your area?

 

[layoric]

Never can tell! Ice storm tonight.

My brother had an idea to post a pole next to the chimney, buried 4 feet down, and going up most of the length of the chimney. Then just bracket them together. The pole will be very thick, possibly like a telephone pole, or equivalent strength in metal frame. Only thing is I have to wait for the thaw. I like that idea because I won't need to make more holes in the roof.

Kirk

 

[billb3]

I'd like some of that snow up on my roof today.
Does year and a half old snow still have any coolth left in it ?

 

[JPapiPE]

Dear Kirk, I can't understand why your stove installers would recommend such a curcuitous route for your chimney. It does look like an accident waiting to happen. There are simple flashing kits for metal corrigated roofs. Meaning, send the chimney up through the house.I will be using one as soon as i get my chimney pipe. Here is a picture of the flexible base 100% silicone boot or flashing if thats what you want to call it. It is pricey but can be had for $ 200 or less.There is a thin base metal over the silicone. I think the metal is lead.The boot is cut to the she size of your chimney pipe minus 1/2" for snugness. The lead is very thin and malleable and is fastened to the roof deck with sheet metal screws every 1-1/2" The perimeter of the underside of the flange is spread with silicone sealant. Rubber washered sheet metal screws are suggested for the fastening. This method would reduce your pipe by lots of feet, and keep your flue gases warmer for a better burn with less creosote. Also lastly, you should sand or coarse steel wool your metal roof down to bare metal to get the sealant to adhere better. A straight shot from your stove to your roof will make chimney cleaning a lot easier too. If you need more information on this product P.M.me.
Joe
P.S. The boot comes with a long pipe clamp which is cinched to the top of the boot to snug it up to the metal chimney

 

[webbie]

Some chimneys say specifically to not use the els in exterior applications - just adding that for what it is worth!

 

[JPapiPE]

Kirk the overhang( cornice section) you have on your house appears to be 14-18" from the sidewall of your house. Attempts to route chimney pipe around such a large cornice has to affect the draft as you must have at least 4 major elbows in your pipe run. No more than 2 elbows are recommended for a good air flow. If cost makes you have to keep your present pipe route, I would be extra vigilent in shoveling snow away from your chimney area after every storm. How long did you have your present set-up before it collasped?
Just trying to help Joe

 

[begreen]

Kirk hasn't posted since this posting of Feb 2007. But it is a classic example of why not to do this kind of installation. There are lot's of problems here, note inadequate roof bracing.