Chimney Fire Help

[bcinny]

I'm a city girl that just moved into the country. In September I bought a new Dutchwest Cast Iron DW1500 wood burning stove professionally installed, paid over $3000 for the stove (non cat.)installation and chimney. I bought seasoned hard wood, read and followed all the directions. However last week I had a chimney fire, flames were coming out the top of the chimney and the area between my double lining and single lining inside my home. The fire department came and fortunately the fire burnt itself out. No damage to my home. The Fire Captain said the cap on the chimney was clogged and trapped the creoso. And I probably wasn't burning my stove hot enough. The fire department cleaned out my chimney and put everything back together. Great volunteers. My installer sent me a thermastat to monitor the temperature and is coming out to check things out but I need some outside help. I can't seem to get my stack thermastat higher than 250 and my stove more than 400 degrees. My fires seem hot. But. My chimney (single lined) is mostly inside my home and has a 45 degree elbow about 13 feet up from the stove. It goes around a beam before the chimney goes to the outside of my home through to my ceiling. I have a metal roof. The fire captain said everything seems up to code. Any suggestions would be greatly appeciated.
Thanks
Barbara

 

[restorer]

I'm a city girl that just moved into the country. In September I bought a new Dutchwest Cast Iron DW1500 wood burning stove professionally installed, paid over $3000 for the stove (non cat.)installation and chimney. I bought seasoned hard wood, read and followed all the directions. However last week I had a chimney fire, flames were coming out the top of the chimney and the area between my double lining and single lining inside my home. The fire department came and fortunately the fire burnt itself out. No damage to my home. The Fire Captain said the cap on the chimney was clogged and trapped the creoso. And I probably wasn't burning my stove hot enough. The fire department cleaned out my chimney and put everything back together. Great volunteers. My installer sent me a thermastat to monitor the temperature and is coming out to check things out but I need some outside help. I can't seem to get my stack thermastat higher than 250 and my stove more than 400 degrees. My fires seem hot. But. My chimney (single lined) is mostly inside my home and has a 45 degree elbow about 13 feet up from the stove. It goes around a beam before the chimney goes to the outside of my home through to my ceiling. I have a metal roof. The fire captain said everything seems up to code. Any suggestions would be greatly appeciated.
Thanks
Barbara

I'm just going to welcome you. There are many here that can better answer your question. If you don't hear from them soon enough, check the archives. Odd that you can't get it hot enough, usually it's just the opposite problem. Maybe your timing on damping is too quick. Getting the thermostat is the best place to start. Nice that your dealer is willing to come out and take a look.

OTOH, what a great volunteer FD. Couldn't ask more for neighborliness. Great example to set.

 

[Bob512]

Barb, I had a 45degree turn in a chimney and it was a cresote nightmare. I put in a stainless 6inch liner and that really helped. It kept the temp up and didn't have as much build up. I would use a 6 or 8 inch liner. Maybe MSG or one of these other guys can help more.

 

[Robbie]

Sorry to hear of this, don't feel bad, thank goodness you and everyone is ok and the fire dept. did a super job !

We have all had our share of scares I think..............there will be lots of help come along so stand by and don't get discouraged.

The first thing to check I think is to make sure your wood is really seasoned, this could be part of the reason your not getting your temps up.

If it's not seasoned, it takes all the heat it produces to dry it enough to burn, mine did this the first year.

And my cap screen has to be cleaned once a month, even with really dry wood.

Dampering down also makes a huge difference in creosote build up.

Does your wood start burning as soon as you lay it on hot coals ?


Robbie

 

[elkimmeg]

If you have single wall pipe up to the class A pipe that then passes threw your roof your manual restricts single wall connevctor pipe to 10' not 13' witha 45 degree elbow that effectively increases the single wall distance to 15.5'

You have exceeded the single wall conector pipe lenght 155% the flue gasses cool down too much leaving cresote deposits. the venting cools down so much so you can not achieve a decent draft to and the stove preformance suffers. it can't get hot enough to opperate correctly

If your wood is not dry enough and you have single wall connector pipe this length the fire dept will be making frequent visits

Btw the DW 1500 is not a cast iron stove but plate steel stove Please post a picture of your setup and take a picture outside of it exiting the roof.
Like you we are guessing a bit till we get more details. 13' single wall pipe witha 45degreee elbow is not code or listing compliant

Sorry to have to tell you this but it is a fact, you had one scare and we want to help so that you do not have another one or worse

 

[bcinny]

You guys are great I'm going to take pictures. And upload them. I just measured the distance from the top of my stove to the ceiling and it is only 104" (8 feet 6 inches) not 13 feet.

 

[bcinny]

Here's some pictures. I have my chimney cap off until I have my stove man comes out and see what the problem might be. I can't get the fire hot. He's going to come out clean it out. Check it out, check out my wood, etc. He said something could be plugged up. I did burn some wet (from the rain) wood early in the season before I covered my wood. Again thanks so much. I'm really afraid of having another chimney fire. I've spent all my savings fixing up an old farm house. Two years of hard work and I love my home.
I've been doing allot of reading about safe burning. I did notice that before the fire that every time I opened the stove it smelled bad and smoke came out. I don't have that problem any more. I quess its a warning sign. I check my chimney and I don't see smoke coming from it. Also the seal on the door isn't really really tight so he's going to tighten that up.
Thanks again,
Barbara
PS I live in upstate NY on top of Berlin Mountain.

 

[Bob512]

Elk is right. The gases are cooling down and collecting at the 45. Can he change it at the stove and go straight up through the roof. Bob

 

[elkimmeg]

every change in direction of your exhanust patr produces friction and stalls the natural upward movement. exhaust the is slowed down will cool and deposit creosote. as it cools it also looses monentum to continue accent. In your case you have 2 45 drgree elbows the frictional effect is like adding an additional 5' to you connector run It may be 8"6 but effectively it is 13"6" far beyong the maxium for single wall connector pipe as per manufacture specs. this additional length is causing your condition and the reason the fire dept was already there IT is not code compliant.

I know the original installation was done before you bought the home but it was wrong then and the fire dept trip proved that. that length of connector pipe requires it to be double wall pipe.
the double wall pipe will hold in the heat better which will promote your draft. your stove will run like it should. It will run hotter and reduce creosote in the first place.

Double wall connector pipe is not cheap probably why the original owner did not install it. But that's what is required. More important you now realize it is a safety issue.

the second factor you must burn dry wood

 

[elkimmeg]

Hey guy's and gals chime in here, but I think the single wall pipe is connected to double wall connector pipe up and out the roof? I fear it may not be class A chimney pipe?

 

[begreen]

Caught my eye too Elk. It's not too common to see black class A pipe. If true, I'm surprised the fire dept. didn't point this out. Also, no rear hear shielding on the single-wall.

bcinny, if you take a tape measure, how far is it from the rear edge of the pipe coming out of the stove to the wall behind it?

 

[elkimmeg]

Many fire fighter do not study code and are vollenterers. BE green you may be on to something I think there may be clearance issues with the pipe and the stove the tile on the wall does not appeat to have the 1" reduced enclosure air space ant then the distance to the wood window moldings? then as you said the single wall pipe clearance looks suspect.



I think you need expert advice and not from a vollenteer fire man. Can you measure your didtances from the pipt to the wall and also measure the distance from the stove to the window moldings? Can you tak a picture on the side of the stove so we can see the spacing relationship to the wall and see if a rear heat shield is present?

You had this stove professionally installed did you pull a permit? Who inspected it I would love to see the original bill of sale to see what materials they charge you for? that would provide clues as to the maTERIALS USED IN THE INSTALLATION.

WHILE WE ARE DISCUSSING YOU INSTALATION WHAT ABOUT THE HEARTH PAD? sorry hit the caps not shouting

 

[Andre B.]

I cringe every time I see sharp cornered elbows like that.

Why not or do stove pipe companies make elbows with nice large sweeping radiuses?

If that were my setup I would get a length of 6" 10 gage wall (~0.134) steel tube.
Cut a bunch of pie shaped sections rotate them around and weld them back together to make an nice smooth S curve with about 16" radius to the center of the pipe.
Sand the inside of the welds so there are no rough areas to slow up the smoke.

What would code say about that?

 

[BrotherBart]

I cringe every time I see sharp cornered elbows like that.

Why not or do stove pipe companies make elbows with nice large sweeping radiuses?

If that were my setup I would get a length of 6" 10 gage wall (~0.134) steel tube.
Cut a bunch of pie shaped sections rotate them around and weld them back together to make an nice smooth S curve with about 16" radius to the center of the pipe.
Sand the inside of the welds so there are no rough areas to slow up the smoke.

What would code say about that?

A lot less work to go down to ACE hardware and pick one up for nine bucks. One piece corregated elbows. They come in 90*, 45* and 30*. Though the 90 is usually the only one in regular stock.

 

[begreen]

A pair of 30 degree els with a longer run between them would also work. It would be nice to see manufacturers like Duratech making them in double-wall.

 

[bcinny]

I just had this stove put in this past Sept. I paid $1000 for the stove and $1000 for the chimney plus installation. I also had a couple propane heaters put in. Total cost over $6000. The company that installed it seems really good and wants to help solve this problem.
The stove is my primary source for heat. The angle is there to go around a beam. The single line chimney goes into a double lined chimney about 2 feet from the ceiling. The flames were coming out of that space and out the top of the chimney on the roof.
Here's the picture of the back of the stove. It's 8 inches clearance from the back of the stove to the wall. But it has another wall on the back of the stove. I took care of the back of the stove and floor. It has the cement board under the ceremic tile.
Thanks again.
Barbara
If the stove is too close to the wall I have room to move it and have more clearance.

 

[begreen]

So who's gonna call this one? It looks like single wall pipe is about 12" from the wall. bc can you confirm? Also what is the exact make and model of the stove? If it's not on your receipt it should be on the manual and there should be a plate on the back of the stove. While back there, can you tell if the stove has a rear heat shield?

I hate to say it, but so far this appears to be an illegal installation. But don't panic, we'll need some actual measurements, stove make and model, etc.. It's hard to tell from the pictures and I could be mistaken. Does your receipt list the piping model and type for the stove? If yes, please post that as well.

 

[elkimmeg]

Lost my entire reply Be green I think Barbara is gone I think she does not want to hear that her install was not up to code and very dangereous.
Barbara if still interested I think I can help you to get it installed correctly After all you installed a VC

 

[Michael6268]

I too would agree from these pics that the stove/pipe is too close to combustibles. My other concern would be why did she have flames coming out from the connection to the chimney or double wall(whichever it is)? Seems to me that with a chimney fire anything in that area should have been being pulled into the pipe and up the chimney. I would be very concerned.

 

[elkimmeg]

mike she may be a yankee fan but won't hold it against her

 

[Michael6268]

mike she may be a yankee fan but won't hold it against her

You can never knock "perfection"! LOL... Less than two weeks to spring training. I cant wait! And Daytona this weekend!

 

[rudysmallfry]

Okay, here's my dumb question. If her stove is running too cool, how did the buildup ignite in the first place? Doesn't it have to get to about 500 degrees to ignite creosote?

On the elbow matter, I have a near 90 degree elbow and an entirely exterior chimney due to the basement placement. While the elbow is a creosote magnet, there just wasn't much in there when I did my last cleanout. I've have to guess that assuming the overall chimney height specs are meant and draft is good, the elbow isn't as big of a factor as folks like to think it is.

 

[rudysmallfry]

Oh yeah...and be nice to her guys. There's a 50% chance she's a Mets fan.

 

[restorer]

Lost my entire reply Be green I think Barbara is gone I think she sis not want to here that her install was not up to code and very dangereous.
Barbara if still interested I think I can help you to get it installed correctly After all you installed a VC

Hey, Elk, give the lady a break, she's a City gal and it's Friday Night. Isn't that Pizza or Spaghetti night or something?

 

[restorer]

Oh yeah...and be nice to her guys. There's a 50% chance she's a Mets fan.

Maybe, Rangers, Nets, or Knicks, or maybe that's what she wanted to leave behind?