Chimney relining?

[neil]

Hey, new to the forum here and looking for some help. I bought a house (built in 86) and had a chimney guy come out and clean and inspect it. he said i would need a new chimney liner. well he gave me a quote for $7,400... They would need to knock out the clay liner and put in a steel liner and surround it with vermiculite. the issues he found were some vertical cracks in the clay liner and some black builup around the bottom third of the chimney which he said was from a smaller chimney fire (smoldering type). the pictures he gave me with the quote showed the cracks, but they were very thin and short hairline cracks. there were no gaps in the cracks. i had a concrete guy out doing some other work for me (he also does chimney replacements) and he said the guy was probably hard up for work. him and i went up and looked down the chimney and he said it looks perfectly fine. he said you will inevidibly get some cracks in the liner and it would be fine to use. If anyone has any insight they could give me i would greatly appreciate it. I attached a few pics he had of them. Thanks again!

Chimney:
Flue liner 9x18 OD
7x16 ID
chimney 24 feet

 

[chipsoflyin]

Depending on which stove u get, I would still throw 6 inch flexible liner in and call it good. Insulate only if the chimney is on an external wall.

 

[My Oslo heats my home]

The quote you were given is a bit too high for the work he wants to do, and it seems unnecessary. If the clay liner was in such bad shape that the cracked pieces were falling into the chimney that would be cause for more concern. My thoughts are installing a insulated SS liner. The clay liner will now have protection of a top cover and no further fireplace use. I'm not sure vermiculite is necessary if you blanket line it.

 

[red oak]

I had a SS liner put inside my clay liner. The guy that did it did not need to knock out the clay and the cost was less than a quarter of what you are being charged.

 

[stoveguy13]

the first guy is 100% right per-code once the chimney liner is cracked it needs to be fixed. The first guy is also on the high end of the pricing. shop around for some more quotes a wrapped insulation tends to be less then a poured my be a good way to go.

 

[neil]

Thanks for the replies so far. I should note that the chimney is for a wood burning fireplace and the chimney is on the external wall. the quote referenced the code on the liner, but it is not very clear on the severity. it just states that if it compromises the integrity of the liner. i would think that those small cracks would not compromise it, especially since there is another brick and mortar layer surrounding the liner.
i am a very handy person and have done most of the remodel work on the house myself. Is dropping in a new liner something i could do myself? the only issue i think i would run into is sealing up the liner at the bottom of the chimney. i think if i got a rectangular insulated liner i could still just about get the right ratio for liner to fireplace size.

 

[BrotherBart]

The ID of the chimney is gonna be an issue. Seven inches is not wide enough for dropping an insulation wrapped six inch liner down it. And it needs to be insulated. Integrity of the chimney isn't the issue with those cracks, but heat getting through them to the combustible surrounding structure members is. Gotta insulate the liner.

Pre-insulated rigid liner or flex liner is available and will fit. It ain't cheap but it ain't seven grand either. And since I am the least skilled person on the planet and have lined three chimneys you can do it. Just don't go falling off the roof.

Tell us all ya can about that chimney and what you are gonna be doing with it. Open fireplace, wood stove or what? Open fireplace will complicate the lining issue.

 

[bluedogz]

Thanks for the replies so far. I should note that the chimney is for a wood burning fireplace and the chimney is on the external wall. the quote referenced the code on the liner, but it is not very clear on the severity. it just states that if it compromises the integrity of the liner. i would think that those small cracks would not compromise it, especially since there is another brick and mortar layer surrounding the liner.
i am a very handy person and have done most of the remodel work on the house myself. Is dropping in a new liner something i could do myself? the only issue i think i would run into is sealing up the liner at the bottom of the chimney. i think if i got a rectangular insulated liner i could still just about get the right ratio for liner to fireplace size.

I have video of Hogwildz and I doing the 6" liner in my chimney 24' up. My masonry liner also had significant cracking. But yes, small cracks can and do compromise the liner. Heat and pressure do amazing things.

Yes, a liner can be done DIY, but I'd recommend against "by yourself." Check YouTube- there are TONS of videos of folks putting in steel liners. I think Rockford even has a video section on their website. Our crew was me, Hogwildz, Mrs. Blue, and the dog. Of those, I was only helpful in paying for the kit, making chili, and rescuing Hogz off the roof when the lift broke.

 

[webby3650]

Relining that flue will be very expensive! It will need a heavy rectangular flex liner and they are high! But, $7400! That's too high for sure.
You would be money ahead to install a fireplace insert and a 6" round liner. It would heat your house, have a pretty fire, and come in cheaper than your original bid.

 

[BrotherBart]

What webby3650 said. I missed the open fireplace reference in the OP.

 

[neil]

Thanks again. Ok, well i was hoping that i could use the chimney as is, but that looks like its not going to happen. i'm kind of a cheap a** so i prefer to do things myself. the fireplace is open, no doors, just a screen on it right now. i would like to just be able to have nice fires in it. i'm not too concerned about being able to heat the house, although it would be nice. i've debated about putting glass doors on it, i would leave them open for fires, but i know they help with energy efficiency to have them closed when not in use.
do you guys think i would need to knock out the clay liners or can i just put an insulated liner down it. i was looking at rectangular liners to use. i dont think i would have enough room just putting a 6 in liner down, but if i could go with say a 6 x 13 or so liner, i think it would be a close enough ratio between fireplace size and flue area, i'll double check ratios before settling on one. i know i can (plus a few buddies to help) put the liner in, just worried about putting in the top plate above the smoke chamber. Has anyone ever done this?

 

[Eaglecraft]

Thanks again. Ok, well i was hoping that i could use the chimney as is, but that looks like its not going to happen. i'm kind of a cheap a** so i prefer to do things myself. the fireplace is open, no doors, just a screen on it right now. i would like to just be able to have nice fires in it. i'm not too concerned about being able to heat the house, although it would be nice. i've debated about putting glass doors on it, i would leave them open for fires, but i know they help with energy efficiency to have them closed when not in use.
do you guys think i would need to knock out the clay liners or can i just put an insulated liner down it. i was looking at rectangular liners to use. i dont think i would have enough room just putting a 6 in liner down, but if i could go with say a 6 x 13 or so liner, i think it would be a close enough ratio between fireplace size and flue area, i'll double check ratios before settling on one. i know i can (plus a few buddies to help) put the liner in, just worried about putting in the top plate above the smoke chamber. Has anyone ever done this?

Neil:

I suggest that you forget about using your fireplace as a open fireplace and install either a wood-burning insert or a free standing woodstove in the fireplace opening. Having had one, trying to use my open fireplace as a heat generating device was a loosing proposition. And if you want to use your chimney to exhaust your open fireplace, you should repair the terra-cotta flue.

On the other hand, if you install either an insert or a woodstove, you can slide an insulated flex liner down your existing flue w/o removing/repair the terra-cotta flue. In my view - just my opinion - the photos that you posted showed that the flue is not in bad shape.

My wife and I installed an insulated 6 inch Flex King Pro down a 14 by 14 inch terra cotta liner and connected it to a Hearthstone Clydesdale. The liner/stove works like a champ. I measured the OD of my 6 inch Flex King Pro - it was about 6.25 inches - so an insulated 6 inch liner might be a tight fit but it might work OK. You could go to a 5.5 inch insulated liner if you had to. By the way, if you DIY as we did, you can put a 25 foot insulated down your flue for less than $700. That's a lot less than $7,400.

Good luck in resolving your chimney problem.

 

[My Oslo heats my home]

Neil:

I suggest that you forget about using your fireplace as a open fireplace and install either a wood-burning insert or a free standing woodstove in the fireplace opening. Having had one, trying to use my open fireplace as a heat generating device was a loosing proposition. And if you want to use your chimney to exhaust your open fireplace, you should repair the terra-cotta flue.

On the other hand, if you install either an insert or a woodstove, you can slide an insulated flex liner down your existing flue w/o removing/repair the terra-cotta flue. In my view - just my opinion - the photos that you posted showed that the flue is not in bad shape.

My wife and I installed an insulated 6 inch Flex King Pro down a 14 by 14 inch terra cotta liner and connected it to a Hearthstone Clydesdale. The liner/stove works like a champ. I measured the OD of my 6 inch Flex King Pro - it was about 6.25 inches - so an insulated 6 inch liner might be a tight fit but it might work OK. You could go to a 5.5 inch insulated liner if you had to. By the way, if you DIY as we did, you can put a 25 foot insulated down your flue for less than $700. That's a lot less than $7,400.

Good luck in resolving your chimney problem.

This fella hit the nail right on the head, my thoughts exactly.
+1 as I mentioned above.

 

[Charles1981]

Whatever you do.

Get a second opinion. And maybe a third.

7400 sounds astronomical.

 

[Big Dan]

you could probably get your chimney thermocreted for less than that. I bet the guy Used scare tactics with His ridiculous price.

 

[Big Dan]

some poophead just rolled the dice. sucker born every minute. don't let it be you.

 

[Big Dan]

it edited me I would never use the word poop head that's just rucking ridiculous. could you take a picture of this quote for us.

 

[neil]

Thanks guys, i would put in a wood burning insert, but i would not want the fireplace to be smaller than what it is. i'm not worried about the heat generating abilities, i just put in a new high efficiency furnace (although any savings would be nice). I really just want a nice big fire going. i know i could throw in an insert pretty easily myself, but again, i'd really just like a nice fire going.
I assume it would be cheaper to do an insert and then run a line for it, what are my options if i want to keep the current size of the fireplace?
For some reason it wont let me attach the quote, but i'll click and paste some of it.


The Chimney Pro’s offer to furnish all materials and labor to complete the project as described below:
All Repairs Listed Are Directly Correlated To Damage Consistent With Exposure To Chimney Fire
Install approximately 150sf protective coverings inside house to protect contents and flooring treatments, erect scaffolding/roof scaffolding to reach top of chimney/provide work platform, install approximately 250sf protective coverings around outside work area, open masonry chimney crown, remove damper to allow access to smoke chamber, breakdown all existing clay liners and remove through damper opening, install 7.00” x 15.375” Olympia 304L flexible stainless steel liner from top of smoke chamber through top of chimney, new liner shall be mass insulated with EverGuard Insulation Mix (approx. 45cf) to meet UL Listings as required by code on all four sides and sealed at connection to smoke chamber with ceramic wool insulation and completely seal with Smoktite Ceramic Sealant, install single clay liner at top of chimney to accommodate new size spark arrestor/rain cap, repair concrete crown and seal with Crown Seal, install top mounted damper (Chim-a-Lator), all debris to be hauled to dump, remove and dispose of interior and exterior coverings, disassemble scaffolding and haul away, job site to be fully cleaned upon completion. *New liner carries a lifetime warranty on all parts and labor. Price below reflects all discounts, prior inspection fee credits, and applicable sales tax.
All work described above shall be completed in a professional manner for the sum of:
$7,428.25 Seven Thousand Four Hundred Twenty Eight Dollars and 25/100.
Deposit of 50% of job total is due prior to starting project when parts are ordered; balance is due the day of completion. Payments accepted by Visa, MasterCard, Discover, American Express, check, and cash. All payments made by credit card are subject to 2.75% service charge. There is a $30.00 charge for any returned check. Interest on any amount owed shall be charged at 1.5% per month (18% annual). All late payments shall be charged a monthly late fee of $50.00 or lower per month (not to exceed legal limits). Client agrees to pay all costs associated with collecting monies owed. All disputes arising from this contract shall be settled in and by binding arbitration.

 

[Charles1981]

Again if you want an insert and can install an insulated stainless steel liner through the current clay liner and the current literally only has a few cracks in it there should be no need to remove the current clay liner so long as you can fit an insulated liner in there (maybe 5.5inch). Obviously there are those with more knowledge but again that is extremely expensive.

If you could just fit a new liner in the current flue we are talking ~700-800 dollars for a kit. And If you pay someone to do it (license and insured) we are talking maybe another 400-700 for install.

I would think your current clay liner would have to be in much worse shape for it to have to be completely gutted like that.

Get more professional opinions than just this one company.

 

[webby3650]

but i would not want the fireplace to be smaller than what it is.

Currently your open fireplace is operating somewhere between -5% to as much as 5% efficiency. You could get an insert that has less than half of the cubic footage of that open burner and it would run anywhere from 70%-80% efficiency. And it would be able to heat a large portion of your house if not all of it.
There are several fireplace inserts out there with large fireboxes and huge glass doors! Here are a few.
(broken link removed to http://lopistoves.com/product-detail.aspx?model=422)
(broken link removed to http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/store/wood-products/wood-inserts/clydesdale-wood-insert)