Chimney repair issues

[Doc C]

I hope this is in the right place.

We have a 2 story chimney. About 30' total height. It's masonry and has a few small cracks in the pumice liner.

We do not really have what I would consider a trustworthy chimney company in our area. They all have bad reputations and they all have a different idea of the right way to do things.

I have talked to 3 chimney companies and had them inspect and give us repair ideas and pricing.

1st company suggested refractive coating to fix and wanted $1750. I have seen their work after talking to them and not impressed and I feel like it would have to be redone.

2nd company suggested a 6" insulated pipe ovalled out to fit down a 5"x9" clay liner. Total cost was about $2300. I like the idea, worst reputation of all the companies, but the main problem is I casuallied asked the third company if they could do the same with the pipe and they said it is not NFPA 211 compliant because it is reduced to less the 6" and they would not do it and they would recommend that it be replaced it they saw it. I did not tell them another company suggested it.

3rd company suggested refractive coating with a total cost of $3600 to include a poultice to remove creosote before doing the coating.

Also none of the companies wanted to risk breaking out the clay liner to drop in a 6" pipe.

My only other option would be if I hire a helper and break out the chimney from the roof down and then run tripple wall pipe. Chimney is internal in the house and would be up through a chase open on one side but need low clearance pipe.

We are selling the house in the spring and it's been recommended that we have this fixed ahead of time.

I could use some thoughts on this please.

Thanks in advance

 

[bholler]

I am very skeptical of the resurfacing I just dont see how it could possible adhere long term. and without cleaning completely like #3 says it will never work. But #3 is also wrong about the nfpa211 thing. It says you cannot reduce unless allowed by the manufacturer. And many manufacturers allow it. But you could also go with a 6.5 or 7" liner ovalized and you would not be downsizing.

Why would none of them break out the liners?

 

[Doc C]

I am very skeptical of the resurfacing I just dont see how it could possible adhere long term. and without cleaning completely like #3 says it will never work. But #3 is also wrong about the nfpa211 thing. It says you cannot reduce unless allowed by the manufacturer. And many manufacturers allow it. But you could also go with a 6.5 or 7" liner ovalized and you would not be downsizing.

Why would none of them break out the liners?

Thanks for the reply.

Only the third company does break out liners and they think that the space between the clay liner and the brick was filled with mortar and that the vibrations will crack the brick and cause lots of damage.

Englander 30 is the stove I have now....subject to change. The pipe would have to be reduced to no larger then about 4.5"x8" or so in order to fit inside the pumice.

 

[bholler]

Only the third company does break out liners and they think that the space between the clay liner and the brick was filled with mortar and that the vibrations will crack the brick and cause lots of damage.

that is very possible

Englander 30 is the stove I have now....subject to change. The pipe would have to be reduced to no larger then about 4.5"x8" or so in order to fit inside the pumice.

Did they ask englander if reducing was ok? And the liner is not pumice it is terracotta

 

[Doc C]

that is very possible


Did they ask englander if reducing was ok? And the liner is not pumice it is terracotta

As far as asking Englander I highly doubt it. I think that is one thing I would have to do. They all think Englander is not a good stove, I STRONGLY, disagree.

As far as pumice and terracotta I'm not sure the difference. They all said it was pumice. I do have what they called a clay liner in my wood cook stove chimney, and there is a big difference between the liners. The one they called pumice had creosote basically embedded in the liner and it's a rough liner where as the clay one you can clean the creosote right off pretty easy with almost none left and it's alot smoother.

I'm not sure if the type of liner matters in this is situation but in the future I would like to learn the difference between the types of liners but right now I'm just hoping to figure out the best quality option for the least amount of money that makes sense.

 

[bholler]

As far as asking Englander I highly doubt it. I think that is one thing I would have to do. They all think Englander is not a good stove, I STRONGLY, disagree.

As far as pumice and terracotta I'm not sure the difference. They all said it was pumice. I do have what they called a clay liner in my wood cook stove chimney, and there is a big difference between the liners. The one they called pumice had creosote basically embedded in the liner and it's a rough liner where as the clay one you can clean the creosote right off pretty easy with almost none left and it's alot smoother.

I'm not sure if the type of liner matters in this is situation but in the future I would like to learn the difference between the types of liners but right now I'm just hoping to figure out the best quality option for the least amount of money that makes sense.

I have never heard of a pumice liner. Not saying it doesnt exist but I have been doing this pretty long and this is the first I have heard of it.

 

[BrotherBart]

Pumice liners are used a lot in the UK. Never heard of one here but it is possible.

 

[Doc C]

I have never heard of a pumice liner. Not saying it doesnt exist but I have been doing this pretty long and this is the first I have heard of it.

Fair enough. Like I said the companies around here are not the most reputable. And quite frankly not very knowledgeable so I am not surprised to be getting bad info from them.

It sounds like if Englander approves it then it might be best to go with the oval pipe?

 

[BrotherBart]

Come to think of it you could pretty much call any poured in liner a pumice liner.

 

[bholler]

Fair enough. Like I said the companies around here are not the most reputable. And quite frankly not very knowledgeable so I am not surprised to be getting bad info from them.

It sounds like if Englander approves it then it might be best to go with the oval pipe?

Yes if you can fit insulation to

 

[bholler]

Come to think of it you could pretty much call any poured in liner a pumice liner.

Why?

 

[BrotherBart]

The hole in the top of the Englander 30-NC is only 5.5" in diameter so I am pretty sure the ovalized liner wouldn't be a problem with them.

 

[BrotherBart]

Why?

What else ya think is in the stuff? All of those poured in liners ain't just concrete.

 

[Doc C]

Yes if you can fit insulation to

I will get ahold of the company that said they would oval out a pipe after I verify with Englander. I will make sure that they plan on using insulated pipe.

Also I never thought about the smaller exit on the stove but that makes sense.

Also the liner I have looks just like the clay liner, being built in sections, and set on top of the one below it possibly mortared together. It's just a different material then my other one that's more clay like.

 

[bholler]

What else ya think is in the stuff? All of those poured in liners ain't just concrete.

no most have vermiculite or perlite in them not pumice

 

[BrotherBart]

no most have vermiculite or perlite in them not pumice

I am betting the OPs guys wouldn't know the difference if the chimney fell on them. The only pumice they have ever seen is the pumice bricks in some stoves these days and the liner looks like them.

 

[BrotherBart]

I've run a 30-NC on a five and a half inch liner since 2006. And the draft could suck the chrome off of a trailer hitch.

 

[Doc C]

I am betting the OPs guys wouldn't know the difference if the chimney fell on them. The only pumice they have ever seen is the pumice bricks in some stoves these days and the liner looks like them.

Now that's funny! Except thinking about all the work they have done for people that don't know better.

 

[Doc C]

And just to clarify one point, the liner HAS to be insulated correct in order to meet the safety requirements?

 

[bholler]

And just to clarify one point, the liner HAS to be insulated correct in order to meet the safety requirements?

Unless you have 2" of space between the outside of the brick structure to any combustible materials yes.

 

[Doc C]

So I talked to the company that wanted to oval a 6" pipe to fit and verified that it is insulated. They want $1974 for the whole job. 25' of pipe and the all the connecting pieces and $65 for the state permit. It seems as though their original price went down. They said they tape the insulation on and then reinforce the insulation it with some sort of wire.

You guys think this could be an effective fix and a decent price?

 

[bholler]

So I talked to the company that wanted to oval a 6" pipe to fit and verified that it is insulated. They want $1974 for the whole job. 25' of pipe and the all the connecting pieces and $65 for the state permit. It seems as though their original price went down. They said they tape the insulation on and then reinforce the insulation it with some sort of wire.

You guys think this could be an effective fix and a decent price?

Sounds like a good price what pipe are they using and how will it be ovalized?

 

[Doc C]

So I'm debating on doing the relining myself. I just don't have a ton of faith in the local companies as I have already stated.

I talked to Chimney Liner Depot who advertises here and the pricing was really good. Have a rough price and will narrow it down once I get some exact measurements.

Couple questions that came up.

1. Pourable vermiculite cement insulation vs wrapped insulation?

2. Clay liner is a 5"x9". He mentioned possibly going with a 5.5" liner called instead of 6"? Is that allowed and is it smart?

3. Can I do this with another person helping? I mean is it a pipe dream to think that I could reline the chimney myself?

And if it's not feasible then I will just have to bite the bullet and have someone do it.