Chimney Thermometer?

[eightpilot]

I have a 90 elbow behind my Oslo that connects the 25ft 6" SS liner to the back of the stove. Is there a brand of stovepipe themometer that is designed for a single wall liner like mine. Guy at the stove shop said that theirs are designed for double wall pipe not single. Any ideas?? Thanks. 8

 

[eightpilot]

Anyone??

 

[fossil]

Dunno, 8. Sure seems like there oughta be something available. I'm assuming you're looking for a remote-read probe such that you can install the probe in the flue behind the stove and read the temp out front...that sort of thing? With my top-exit freestanders, of course, I just use a magnetic above the flue collar on single-wall. Tough to read behind a rear-exit hearth stove though. I've never seen one advertised, but you and I both know it's a pretty low-tech device, and I'd think there'd be something readily available. If you have no luck in the woodstove world, you might look around industrial instrumentation supply outfits. Gotta be a bazillion applications for it. I think most folks just use a thermometer stuck somewhere on the stove itself. Best of luck. Rick

 

[Todd]

Maybe you can find one here? I know they have a digitable probe as well.
(broken link removed to http://www.condar.com/woodstove_landing.html)

 

[gyrfalcon]

My flue is double-wall. Can you learn anything useful from a surface thermo? Can you put a probe thermo in it?

 

[fossil]

Surface temp on double wall yields no significant information. A probe thermometer is quite easily installed in double wall...drill hole, insert probe. Look at the one on the Condar site that was provided a couple posts up, it'll work. No need to worry about sealing it, if it leaks a bit, it'll leak in, not out. Rick

EDIT: A probe-type like that'll work on single or double wall. Even triple wall, for that matter.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Thanks much, Rick. A real noob question, but the description of the probe thermometers didn't say one way or the other, and thinking about it, I blushed to realize I didn't have a clue what "double wall" actually meant as far as the way the thing is constructed.

So what does that mean, double or triple wall? Is that just double/triple thickness of the material, or is there a second tube in there with a bit of air space in between the two walls, or some other kind of material inside or what?

And, er <blush>, um, will any old drill bit of the right diameter do the job, or do I need a special metal something-or-other? See, most of you guys never really teach your daughters about these things, so a lot of us grow up a lot more helpless on basic stuff than we need to be.

 

[fossil]

...So what does that mean, double or triple wall? Is that just double/triple thickness of the material, or is there a second tube in there with a bit of air space in between the two walls, or some other kind of material inside or what?

Not just twice or three times the thickness, no. Double wall pipe is two pipes of different diameters, one inside the other. Triple is, well, three concentric pipes. What's between the pipes depends on what kind of pipe it is, and what it's designed to do. Could be just an air space, could be a ventilated air space, could be filled with insulation. Your Class A chimney is insulated double wall pipe, with the inside being stainless steel. The outside may be stainless or galvanized.

...And, er <blush>, um, will any old drill bit of the right diameter do the job, or do I need a special metal something-or-other?

Any plain old (nice sharp) metal drill bit should do it. (Just don't try it with a bit made for wood). By all means use a centerpunch to make a small indent to give the drill bit a place to start getting a "bite" without wandering all over the stovepipe. Use a variable speed drill and start out nice and slow. The thermometer should come with simple installation instructions. Seems to me the Condar probe thermo in the link above said it was 1/4" diameter that you would drill through the pipe, then it has a magnetic collar that holds the instrument in place. So simple, even a raptor can do it! ;-P Rick

 

[gyrfalcon]

Heh. Or I could just use a well-placed talon, eh?

Anyway, I gather what's in between the walls doesn't matter and that drilling a hole though it and sticking the probe in is the same whichever it is.

But see, here's where you lose those of us who weren't raised to this stuff. Wood bit, metal bit-- should I assume the unmarked drill bits that came with my drill are wood bits, and the nice little set of 'em I bought of various sizes are also wood if not otherwise specified?

And then we get to the "centerpunch," and I haven't the remotest clue what that might be.

Never mind, I'm just gigging you. I need to go to the Aubuchon and ask.

 

[pumiglk]

I have a condar probe in single wall (actually in my ignorance put it through the end of SS liner where its magnetic seal is not to good ). However it seems to read fairly accurate using a magnetic themometer right next to it and and taking that as 0.6 of flue. Can't think of any reason why this style shouldn't work on single as design seems to be to conduct temp back through the penetrated probe.

 

[fossil]

You prob'ly already have the drill bit you need, unless you broke or lost the right size. You prob'ly already have a hammer of some sort...or a rock, or anything you can use to tap on a centerpunch. You could even just use a drill bit as a centerpunch in a pinch. Locate the spot for the hole, center a hard, pointy thing right there pressed firmly against the pipe, and give it a sharp rap with a solid object. Just hard enough to leave a small indentation...not hard enough to "dent" the pipe. Start with a gentle tap and let the pipe teach you. Save the talons for the prey, they're generally much softer materials. Rick

 

[firefighterjake]

My flue is double-wall. Can you learn anything useful from a surface thermo? Can you put a probe thermo in it?

After running part of September and most of October without a flue thermometer (just a stove top thermometer) I broke down (it wasn't really much of a break down since I have a wish list going of stuff I want to buy some day . . . i.e. woodsplitter is high on the list) and bought a Condar probe thermometer just as a way of giving me more info.

Having run this now for several days I have to say having one is quite insightful and would highly recommend getting one. It's helped me understand what I need to be doing to reach the good, non-creosote forming temps while still maintaining optimal temps for the stove itself.

Installation is pretty easy as well . . . took about 10 minutes tops.

 

[firefighterjake]

...So what does that mean, double or triple wall? Is that just double/triple thickness of the material, or is there a second tube in there with a bit of air space in between the two walls, or some other kind of material inside or what?

Not just twice or three times the thickness, no. Double wall pipe is two pipes of different diameters, one inside the other. Triple is, well, three concentric pipes. What's between the pipes depends on what kind of pipe it is, and what it's designed to do. Could be just an air space, could be a ventilated air space, could be filled with insulation. Your Class A chimney is insulated double wall pipe, with the inside being stainless steel. The outside may be stainless or galvanized.

...And, er <blush>, um, will any old drill bit of the right diameter do the job, or do I need a special metal something-or-other?

Any plain old (nice sharp) metal drill bit should do it. (Just don't try it with a bit made for wood). By all means use a centerpunch to make a small indent to give the drill bit a place to start getting a "bite" without wandering all over the stovepipe. Use a variable speed drill and start out nice and slow. The thermometer should come with simple installation instructions. Seems to me the Condar probe thermo in the link above said it was 1/4" diameter that you would drill through the pipe, then it has a magnetic collar that holds the instrument in place. So simple, even a raptor can do it! ;-P Rick

Just a quick clarification . . . you need a 3/16 drill bit to drill through the double wall pipe and then you use the 1/4 inch drill bit for the exterior pipe's hole.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Just a quick clarification . . . you need a 3/16 drill bit to drill through the double wall pipe and then you use the 1/4 inch drill bit for the exterior pipe's hole.

Uh? So go through once all the way with the 3/16, and then just carefully through only the outer wall with the 1/4? How much leeway do I have to do that? IOW, how far apart are the inner and outer walls of the double-wall? What happens if I don't get it right and go through the inner wall with the 1/4 inch?

I knew this couldn't be as straightforward as you guys all said it was!

Adding-- I have no creosote worries at all with the way my set-up works. I ran my first winter last year with crummy low-temp fires while I was learning how it all works, and very underseasoned wood, hissing and spitting and drooling in the firebox, but had only very minimal creosote in the chimney, according to my sweep/installer. But the time delay with a surface thermometer on soapstone greatly complicates the guessing game in figuring out how to get maximum heat output, so I think it would help a lot in understanding what's going on in there. By the time the stovetop registers a temp, good or bad, whatever the conditions were that created it are some indefinite time in the past.

 

[WoodMann]

And here I was looking for a double wall one the whole time........

 

[firefighterjake]

Just a quick clarification . . . you need a 3/16 drill bit to drill through the double wall pipe and then you use the 1/4 inch drill bit for the exterior pipe's hole.

Uh? So go through once all the way with the 3/16, and then just carefully through only the outer wall with the 1/4? How much leeway do I have to do that? IOW, how far apart are the inner and outer walls of the double-wall? What happens if I don't get it right and go through the inner wall with the 1/4 inch?

I knew this couldn't be as straightforward as you guys all said it was!

Adding-- I have no creosote worries at all with the way my set-up works. I ran my first winter last year with crummy low-temp fires while I was learning how it all works, and very underseasoned wood, hissing and spitting and drooling in the firebox, but had only very minimal creosote in the chimney, according to my sweep/installer. But the time delay with a surface thermometer on soapstone greatly complicates the guessing game in figuring out how to get maximum heat output, so I think it would help a lot in understanding what's going on in there. By the time the stovetop registers a temp, good or bad, whatever the conditions were that created it are some indefinite time in the past.

Ayuh . . . you've got it. Drill through the first and second pipe with the 3/16 drill bit and then change out the bit to the 1/4 drill bit (this is all on the back of the package -- really I'm not a probe thermometer genius . . . I just know how to read ) and drill through the first pipe. There is a quarter inch or so air gap between the two pipes in the doublewall I have for my stove.

When you're drilling with the 1/4 inch you just go nice and easy . . . and unless you're pushing to beat the band you shouldn't end up drilling right through both the outer and inner pipe.

Now . . . and this is important . . . if I can do this type of installation, trust me . . . you can do it providing you have the drill and the two different sized bits. And once you get the probe thermometer installed you will have the immense satisfaction with having a very handy tool for your woodstove and in fact you will find yourself glancing over to the woodstove every 15 minutes or so to check out your handiwork and the flue temps. So final words . . . trust me . . . you can do it . . . we're here to help . . . but it really is this easy.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Rick, Jake, thank you very, very much, gentlemen.

I am actually pretty comfortable doing this kind of thing, as long as I know what I'm doing. But there are little things that are so basic, knowledgeable people like you guys take them for granted-- like wood versus metal drill bits. It's that kind of "surprise" I'm wary of running into, especially where something actually important is concerned, like the stove and flue. Never occurred to me there'd be useful instructions on the package, though.

 

[LONDONDERRY]

My flue is double-wall. Can you learn anything useful from a surface thermo? Can you put a probe thermo in it?

After running part of September and most of October without a flue thermometer (just a stove top thermometer) I broke down (it wasn't really much of a break down since I have a wish list going of stuff I want to buy some day . . . i.e. woodsplitter is high on the list) and bought a Condar probe thermometer just as a way of giving me more info.

Having run this now for several days I have to say having one is quite insightful and would highly recommend getting one. It's helped me understand what I need to be doing to reach the good, non-creosote forming temps while still maintaining optimal temps for the stove itself.

Installation is pretty easy as well . . . took about 10 minutes tops.

So what do you consider good high temps for non-creosote forming? I run my stove at 500-600 as much as possible.

 

[firefighterjake]

Rick, Jake, thank you very, very much, gentlemen.

I am actually pretty comfortable doing this kind of thing, as long as I know what I'm doing. But there are little things that are so basic, knowledgeable people like you guys take them for granted-- like wood versus metal drill bits. It's that kind of "surprise" I'm wary of running into, especially where something actually important is concerned, like the stove and flue. Never occurred to me there'd be useful instructions on the package, though.

No problem . . . that's what this site is all about . . . members helping members . . . and to me, it's all about giving something back since I know I've learned (and am still learning) a lot from this site.

 

[firefighterjake]

My flue is double-wall. Can you learn anything useful from a surface thermo? Can you put a probe thermo in it?

After running part of September and most of October without a flue thermometer (just a stove top thermometer) I broke down (it wasn't really much of a break down since I have a wish list going of stuff I want to buy some day . . . i.e. woodsplitter is high on the list) and bought a Condar probe thermometer just as a way of giving me more info.

Having run this now for several days I have to say having one is quite insightful and would highly recommend getting one. It's helped me understand what I need to be doing to reach the good, non-creosote forming temps while still maintaining optimal temps for the stove itself.

Installation is pretty easy as well . . . took about 10 minutes tops.

So what do you consider good high temps for non-creosote forming? I run my stove at 500-600 as much as possible.

I would guess that this temp on a stovetop would be more than enough to prevent an excessive build up of creosote.

 

[firefighterjake]

I have a 90 elbow behind my Oslo that connects the 25ft 6" SS liner to the back of the stove. Is there a brand of stovepipe themometer that is designed for a single wall liner like mine. Guy at the stove shop said that theirs are designed for double wall pipe not single. Any ideas?? Thanks. 8

Sorry for getting sidetracked 8 . . . and now we return you to the regularly scheduled programming . . . or at least the original thread's question.