Choosing and operating a stove in North Carolina

[SpaceBus]

I think you could also get a similar burn time in a Vermont Castings stove, but I doubt you want to deal with a down draft stove. Like others have said, the long burn time is achieved with a thermostatic control combined with the catalytic combustor. The Woodstock stoves don't have the thermostatic control, but do have a catalytic combustor. Part of the "burn time" included with the Blaze King claim is when the wood is only glowing coals. Once the stove is full of coals and starting to cool down the thermostatic control will start to open and keep the coals full of air until there is nothing left. Most other stoves just keep the same air setting the whole time unless you are around to open up the air manually at the end of the burn.

In your case I would suggest the Woodstock Progress Hybrid or Absolute Steel or the Blaze King Ashford. They all have a nice super low setting and very clean emissions. Your wife will probably prefer the PH or Ashford over the AS.

Edit: Ash collection is very important, as is some sort of ash lip under the door opening. My cookstove has an excellent ash pan and compartment, but no ash lip at all making messes when the door opens. My other stove has a great ash handling setup and lip, and the area stays cleaner with less work. I really don't like shoveling ash out of a stove, no matter how deep it is. Some folks can do it without making dust, but I am not one of those people. I can open the ash door and carry out a pan without making dust though.

 

[bholler]

For me ash collection isn't a thought. As long as it has an ashlip I am fine. But I also shovel ash out of hundreds of stoves a year so I may not be the best judge of that task

 

[kennyp2339]

Yes 30 hours under perfect conditions at extremely low btu output.

Amen to that, my BK princess work for me because Im only heating about 1400 sq ft, its a pretty big stove, low / medium output keeps my house between 70-74 when temps are in the 20's, normal burn time of useful heat is between 12-14 hrs depending on what type of wood I'm using, when it gets colder out, I push the stove harder and it turns into just like every other stove out there, 8-10 hr burn times , house between 68 - 72 depending on how hard the wind is blowing.

 

[EbS-P]

So being in costal N.C. with an under sized but very efficient heat pump I decided on a non-cat stove for two reasons, with a heat pump low slow burns just aren’t important. If it gets above 40 my heat pump does a good job and pretty cheaply, and I didn’t want to have to worry about Maintaining the cat.
I love my Jøtul. Can’t say I would want to the one of the first to run the new F500v3. I love the ash pan. Wish I had 2.0-2.5 cu ft, or higher btu wood. Hurricanes have left me plenty of free but marginal poplar.

you can keep it running 24-7 but a relight on just a few coals is just as much work as a new top down fire. I tested myself last winter, and I could keep it going 24-7. This winter I’m going to use the heat pump more staying up till midnight or later and reloading at 6 am just isn’t worth it. Set the thermostat, go to bed at a reasonable hour wake up to the house not being and icebox and not hearing the complaints about how cold the house is. ( that still happens but doesnt last as long in the mornings)

Get good at a top down fire. If your HVAC ducts go through unconditioned space it’s probably a net loss to use the blower alone. Bedrooms will be colder. In my ranch bedrooms are on the corners of the house down a hallway can be 10 degrees colder than the living room on a cold (25*F) night.
Right now if I had to pick a freestanding stove and looks mattered T5 looks hard to beat. I’m considering a second wood burner for the basement. It will be a Drolet if decide to put one in.

If you get a stove this winter just go ahead and get a pallet of the sawdust bricks. Don’t mess around with trying to burn semi seasoned wood. It takes all the fun out of a new stove. I got taken for a ride with the cord I bought to burn with my stove the first winter. Wasn’t a full cord, wet as all get out. Four cords + stacked now. Poplar and pine dry fast hear. 12 months and it’s good and dry, less than 20% mc. Yes there are better fire woods but fast drying and free make up for a lot. Let a cold wet rain hit that pine for a few days, soaks it all right back up and it’s next years wood.

Hope that is helpful.
Evan

 

[begreen]

What is the explanation for blaze king showing 30 hour burn times when all the others list 10 to 12 hour? Aren't they more or less the same size and technology?

There is quite a difference in technology between these stoves. A cat stove can be turned down low because the catalyst will chew through the smoke of the smoldering wood. A non-cat is designed to not smolder wood.

 

[vaft]

There is quite a difference in technology between these stoves. A cat stove can be turned down low because the catalyst will chew through the smoke of the smoldering wood. A non-cat is designed to not smolder wood.

I was under the impression that all the stoves I'm looking at have a cat. Now I see the alderlea t5 is cat-free. We actually ruled that one out today, so we're left strongly leaning towards the Oslo V3. As EbS-P and bholler pointed out, I'd be signing up to be a test subject for a bypass-less design, but I just can't find a stove with a classy styling besides jotul and vermont casting. And the things I read online about VC leave me feeling very nervous. Case in point:

I think you could also get a similar burn time in a Vermont Castings stove, but I doubt you want to deal with a down draft stove.

I hadn't actually heard the term "down draft stove" before; had to look it up. Didn't seem like it would be a problem, but I know nothing -- have been taking a crash course in woodstoving. I'd love for someone to reassure me and say "you'll love a VC stove!" but I have a feeling that's not going to happen.

 

[EbS-P]

I agree with you there.

but I just can't find a stove with a classy styling besides jotul

Two thoughts, I think Jøtul put some thought into the design. If they can’t make a go of their F500v3 I’m not sure how they can continue as a company. Their lineup is now very small compared to what it was pre 2020. So lets say the F500v3 burns well but you would need to spend an extra 100$ a year on stove maintenance (I probably spend that much a year on doughnuts for the kids and they don’t get them very often). I would say that’s worth it to be able to look at something pretty everyday I am home. Second, the side load door would be really nice. much cleaner than using the front door.

last thing, since there are some unknowns about F500v3 give it its best chance and make sure your firewood is dry. Get a moisture meter. Don’t burn it unless it’s less than 20% mc, room temp on a fresh split face.
Evan

 

[bholler]

I agree with you there.


Two thoughts, I think Jøtul put some thought into the design. If they can’t make a go of their F500v3 I’m not sure how they can continue as a company. Their lineup is now very small compared to what it was pre 2020. So lets say the F500v3 burns well but you would need to spend an extra 100$ a year on stove maintenance (I probably spend that much a year on doughnuts for the kids and they don’t get them very often). I would say that’s worth it to be able to look at something pretty everyday I am home. Second, the side load door would be really nice. much cleaner than using the front door.

last thing, since there are some unknowns about F500v3 give it its best chance and make sure your firewood is dry. Get a moisture meter. Don’t burn it unless it’s less than 20% mc, room temp on a fresh split face.
Evan

If it was just a question of 100 a year I would agree. But to me that is probably best case scenario. I am concerned about a stove that simply doesn't work as designed for a reasonable amount of time. That leaves the customer fighting to be compensated in some way. I hope it doesn't happen but it wouldn't be the first time. Not even the first time from jotul

 

[Blazing]

I have a princess insert installed in a similarly sized home. We have seen negative 10 degrees here but I'm little north of you in Virginia. I am about 40 minutes from the Carolina line or and hour south of Richmond. If you ever want to see a bk in action just drop me a line.

 

[bunfoolio]

Hello folks,

I'm looking for advice on choosing a wood stove to heat with this winter. I am trying to heat a 1,568 sq. ft. house with average insulation for 1980's era construction. The average temperatures in my area are as follows:

November: 64° / 38°
December: 55° / 32°
January: 51° / 27°
February: 55° / 30°
March: 63° / 36°

I feel like the avg. temps may be a bit misleading. We have weeks in the teens and the highs are only reached briefly. Frankly, I hate being cold and I feel like I'm freezing all winter. I've tried to estimate my heating requirements in BTU's (based on propane consumption) and arrived at a rough guess of 6-12k during the day and 36k+ at night.

The advice I'm hoping to get is two-fold: First, advice on choosing the right stove. I have a raised tile platform 40" deep and 54" wide. I can add a hearth extension mat if necessary. In my research, I have leaned towards Drolet stoves. My wife, on the other hand, is willing to spend much more for a "beautiful" stove with stylings like Vermont Castings. So we have pretty wide price range between $1500 and $3500.

Second, advice on operation. Specifically, for anyone with a climate similar to mine, should I expect to keep coals going continually, or should I be prepared for intermittent use and starting a new fire each time? And generally, can I expect such a wood stove to heat the entire house relatively evenly, or should I prepare for a warm living room and cold bedrooms? Also, do people generally run their HVAC blower to help circulate the air?

7 months out of the year your wood stove is a piece of furniture. If your budget is open i suggest getting one that matches your home decor and your wife's taste. HAPPY WIFE HAPPY LIFE! There should be many stoves that meet your performance requirements but looks matter especially when you sell your home. I got this advice many years ago and got a jotul f500 Oslo. I have warm home and a happy wife. Good luck!

 

[Highbeam]

That 30 hour burn time from the bk is real. It is measured as burning when the cat is over 500 degrees which is not just a few coals. This is the reason I own one. That low and slow burn rate is enough to keep my house very warm 95% of the year, the remaining week or two when we drop into the teens or less with wind I bump up the burn rate so only get 12-16 hour burns with evergreens. So 95% of the year I load once per day, no other heat. It might be magic but it’s real.

But, they're just not a pretty stove and they are expensive. I’m not even really a fan of their cast iron clad ashford since the whole butt of the stove is sheet metal. And I spend about 100$ per year on new catalysts.

The performance is really pretty perfect for folks in Moderate climates heating a home 100% with wood. Woodstock has a model called the Ideal Steel that comes close in long burn abilities.

 

[vaft]

I have a princess insert installed in a similarly sized home. We have seen negative 10 degrees here but I'm little north of you in Virginia. I am about 40 minutes from the Carolina line or and hour south of Richmond. If you ever want to see a bk in action just drop me a line.

I'm a couple minutes from the VA line, in-between 85 and 95. Sounds like you are pleased with the BK. Is it a recent install? Can you inform me which dealer you purchased from? I'm still contemplating my choices.

I want to thank everyone who has replied. I was hesitant at first thinking wood stoves would be overkill in a southern climate, but it's clear that we can enjoy them here, too.

I've been browsing through the forums reading threads and reviews. Trying to avoid asking questions that have been answered a hundred times before. One question stands out for me, though: It has been pointed out here that catalytic stoves have the advantage of burning at lower BTUs and thus achieve longer burn times while dialing back the heat. As I was reading a thread about the oslo v3, I noticed that burn times in the range of 8 to 10 hours were reported, with perhaps 12 hours under very ideal conditions. That's great, of course, but it also seems to be the same burn times I've seen reported for older versions of the same stove which were not catalytic. So my question here is this: Is the addition of jotuls new cat design mostly just for cleaning up the emissions enough to pass epa2020? Am I on the right track to suspect this? If so, that would sour my opinion of the oslo v3 much moreso than it being unproven. And might make me look at the used market for non cat versions.

 

[Highbeam]

I'm a couple minutes from the VA line, in-between 85 and 95. Sounds like you are pleased with the BK. Is it a recent install? Can you inform me which dealer you purchased from? I'm still contemplating my choices.

I want to thank everyone who has replied. I was hesitant at first thinking wood stoves would be overkill in a southern climate, but it's clear that we can enjoy them here, too.

I've been browsing through the forums reading threads and reviews. Trying to avoid asking questions that have been answered a hundred times before. One question stands out for me, though: It has been pointed out here that catalytic stoves have the advantage of burning at lower BTUs and thus achieve longer burn times while dialing back the heat. As I was reading a thread about the oslo v3, I noticed that burn times in the range of 8 to 10 hours were reported, with perhaps 12 hours under very ideal conditions. That's great, of course, but it also seems to be the same burn times I've seen reported for older versions of the same stove which were not catalytic. So my question here is this: Is the addition of jotuls new cat design mostly just for cleaning up the emissions enough to pass epa2020? Am I on the right track to suspect this? If so, that would sour my opinion of the oslo v3 much moreso than it being unproven. And might make me look at the used market for non cat versions.

Yes, you’re right. Not all cat stoves are created equal. Some manufacturers used the catalyst for emissions reductions, some for higher efficiency, some for wide range of output, some for a combination. There are some turd cat stoves just like there are some turd noncats. The cat designs from BK and Woodstock all appear to be pretty dang good with a proven track record.

 

[BKVP]

I was under the impression that all the stoves I'm looking at have a cat. Now I see the alderlea t5 is cat-free. We actually ruled that one out today, so we're left strongly leaning towards the Oslo V3. As EbS-P and bholler pointed out, I'd be signing up to be a test subject for a bypass-less design, but I just can't find a stove with a classy styling besides jotul and vermont casting. And the things I read online about VC leave me feeling very nervous. Case in point:



I hadn't actually heard the term "down draft stove" before; had to look it up. Didn't seem like it would be a problem, but I know nothing -- have been taking a crash course in woodstoving. I'd love for someone to reassure me and say "you'll love a VC stove!" but I have a feeling that's not going to happen.

Let me answer your question directly about the burn times. Most wood heaters have a manual air control for allowing the volume of air into the firebox. So, as the chimney pulls air (often through a hole in the bottom of the stove) the user can move a handle that attaches to a plate that limits the amount of air/opening into the firebox. Under normal stack effect (draft) this process can easily be controlled.

Our stoves do not have a manual air control. They utilize a bimetallic thermostat spring, which is proprietary to our stoves as we make them in-house. When you as the user set the stove for a specific level of heat output, the thermostat responds to the nature of the fuel we burn, unmetered.

Unmetered fuels can result in temperature swings because that is the way wood burns. There are two conditions where the thermostat design excels:

1) Turning an unmetered fuel into a metered fuel. By responding (closing down the air shutter) when the stove begins to burn hotter than set by the user and also increasing the air shutter when the fuel is being depleted to maintain the user prescribed heat output.

2) During very cold environmental conditions (think Minnesota/Interior Alaska and much of Canada) the stack effect increases and the stove begins to over fire. This can result from the fact the manual air control has a minimum air setting and a damper stop. This prevents the user from closing down the air below a position as set during EPA certification and testing. While the hole opening is not enlarged, the CFM of air moving through the hole can increase. The thermostat spring in our units closes down as it would normally to control air flow.

Catalytic wood stoves can heat at lower operating temperature (this means lower burn rate in kg/hr) because emission reduction take place chemically. Active at 550F, it also can mean the glass of the loading door does not stay as clean. There are different factors that can mitigate this glass build up. Secondary combustion stoves reduce emissions thermally, with a firebox operating temperature at 1176F and higher. Hybrid wood heaters utilize a combination of both technologies.

Generally, there is a inverse relationship between the emissions profiles of the technologies used in emissions reductions. Secondary combustion stove generally burn much cleaner the hotter they burn. Catalytic models burn cleaner the lower they burn. Slowing down the emissions, as they pass through the combustor, increases residence time and results in cleaner emissions. Of course they do not burn as clean on high as most secondary combustion stoves.

In reality, all wood heaters certified for 2020 are very clean burning wood stoves!!

BKVP

There are many wonderful stoves that function very well under various conditions. The folks on this forum can provide you with their own personal experiences.

 

[Blazing]

I'm a couple minutes from the VA line, in-between 85 and 95. Sounds like you are pleased with the BK. Is it a recent install? Can you inform me which dealer you purchased from? I'm still contemplating my choices.

I want to thank everyone who has replied. I was hesitant at first thinking wood stoves would be overkill in a southern climate, but it's clear that we can enjoy them here, too.

I've been browsing through the forums reading threads and reviews. Trying to avoid asking questions that have been answered a hundred times before. One question stands out for me, though: It has been pointed out here that catalytic stoves have the advantage of burning at lower BTUs and thus achieve longer burn times while dialing back the heat. As I was reading a thread about the oslo v3, I noticed that burn times in the range of 8 to 10 hours were reported, with perhaps 12 hours under very ideal conditions. That's great, of course, but it also seems to be the same burn times I've seen reported for older versions of the same stove which were not catalytic. So my question here is this: Is the addition of jotuls new cat design mostly just for cleaning up the emissions enough to pass epa2020? Am I on the right track to suspect this? If so, that would sour my opinion of the oslo v3 much moreso than it being unproven. And might make me look at the used market for non cat versions.

I have had my insert around 5 years give or take now. Unfortunately at the time dealer options were slim at best here. I found a one year old model from a private seller and jumped at the chance. Did all the installation myself insulated 15 foot double wall flex block off plate roxul etc. To say I'm pleased with the stove is definitely an understatement. It keeps us comfy for those 50 degree days to as stated before -10f. I know you have seen plenty of reports here but dry wood is imperative. I had all my wood cut split stacked and top covered long before I purchased the stove. The is a company west of Richmond who sells compressed bricks for a good price if you can't source locally.