so wondering if I could get some input on choosing between the solar edge or the enphase solar inverter . I have a few solar estimates a couple installers like the solar edge and I one likes the enphase .
Choosing the right inverter
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DBoon
Minister of Fire
I think nowadays it doesn't really matter - go with the one your installer likes that has the features you need (if that is even an issue). Realistically, the inverter will probably need replacing in about 10 or so years anyways (no matter who you get it from), and the one you get then will be better in every way compared to the one you get today.
If you are installing a system on an occupied roof, you are stuck with Rapid Shutdown and that means optimizers or microinverters mounted on the bottom of a panel in a hot location. An optimizer is lot simpler than an microinverter. The expensive stuff prone to being "cooked" is in the central SolarEdge inverter which can be mounted in far more electronics friendly location. Microinverters have to be on the back of the panel. Enphase microinverters used to have significant reliability issues, and I think in general they fail more often than optimizers. Both will work standalone but both generally are have functionality that has to be on line. Both claim to be just a few months away from being able to be run in hybrid mode.
Ideally you go with a mount on a garage, ground or pole mount and do away with RSD and get a simpler string inverter but f you are stuck with an occupied building, I would stick with Solaredge and optimizers.
Ideally you go with a mount on a garage, ground or pole mount and do away with RSD and get a simpler string inverter but f you are stuck with an occupied building, I would stick with Solaredge and optimizers.
Hopefully I can get All my output from my garage roof but it is attached to the house so I assume that I would need the RSD. I like the idea of the mirco inverter Incase I need to expand in the future.
Solarguy3500
Feeling the Heat
Happy to offer some thoughts and experience.
I have been in the solar industry since 2012 and in that time I have installed and sold both kinds of inverters mentioned in the OP. Many installers used the Enphase M series micro inverters for several years until they started noticing a high failure rate, at which point a lot of them switched to using the Solaredge inverters with DC optizers. The Solaredge inverters worked well for a while, then a few years ago, installers started noticing the failure rate increase on the Solaredge inverters to the point that the company I work for started moving away from Solaredge and using the new line of microinverters from Enphase, the IQ series which had been totally redesigned from the old M series. We have been installing the Enphase IQ series micros for a few years now and have had very few failures so far.
Here is something to think about when making your decision. If one microinverter fails, the rest of the system keeps working and only the one panel with the bad micro doesn't produce any energy until that micro can be replaced. If you go with the Solaredge string inverter and it fails, the whole system is down until the inverter can be replaced. Installers are busy and can't always get out to replace a bad inverter immediately, and sometimes have to wait for a replacement inverter to be shipped out to them, so you could have several weeks or more of lost production while waiting for a new inverter.
A word about warranties. The Enphase micros come with a standard 25 year warranty while the Solaredge inverters have a standard 12 year warranty with an option to purchase an extension up to 25 years for a few hundred dollars extra. Some installers will include the warranty extension in their proposal.
My personal experience: I have a Solaredge inverter that was installed in March of 2020. It failed at almost exactly the one year mark in March of 2021. The replacement has been working fine since then and Solaredge did acknowledge a bad batch of inverters and says they have worked to fix the issues, but only time will tell.
I have been in the solar industry since 2012 and in that time I have installed and sold both kinds of inverters mentioned in the OP. Many installers used the Enphase M series micro inverters for several years until they started noticing a high failure rate, at which point a lot of them switched to using the Solaredge inverters with DC optizers. The Solaredge inverters worked well for a while, then a few years ago, installers started noticing the failure rate increase on the Solaredge inverters to the point that the company I work for started moving away from Solaredge and using the new line of microinverters from Enphase, the IQ series which had been totally redesigned from the old M series. We have been installing the Enphase IQ series micros for a few years now and have had very few failures so far.
Here is something to think about when making your decision. If one microinverter fails, the rest of the system keeps working and only the one panel with the bad micro doesn't produce any energy until that micro can be replaced. If you go with the Solaredge string inverter and it fails, the whole system is down until the inverter can be replaced. Installers are busy and can't always get out to replace a bad inverter immediately, and sometimes have to wait for a replacement inverter to be shipped out to them, so you could have several weeks or more of lost production while waiting for a new inverter.
A word about warranties. The Enphase micros come with a standard 25 year warranty while the Solaredge inverters have a standard 12 year warranty with an option to purchase an extension up to 25 years for a few hundred dollars extra. Some installers will include the warranty extension in their proposal.
My personal experience: I have a Solaredge inverter that was installed in March of 2020. It failed at almost exactly the one year mark in March of 2021. The replacement has been working fine since then and Solaredge did acknowledge a bad batch of inverters and says they have worked to fix the issues, but only time will tell.
I'm going to give a different opinion. I personally like the micro-inverters, especially in areas with snow or if you have shading on the panels.
I can't specifically speak to the Enphase product, but I do like my APSystems inverters so far. My installer has reported a few failures on these but he says nothing extreme as of yet.
For me the deal breaker is cost, in Canada I can install an APSystems QS1A microinverter that runs 4 panels for less than the cost of 4 Solaredge optimizers for those same 4 panels, then you have to still buy the Solaredge string inverter.
I can't specifically speak to the Enphase product, but I do like my APSystems inverters so far. My installer has reported a few failures on these but he says nothing extreme as of yet.
For me the deal breaker is cost, in Canada I can install an APSystems QS1A microinverter that runs 4 panels for less than the cost of 4 Solaredge optimizers for those same 4 panels, then you have to still buy the Solaredge string inverter.
Worth asking the question if RSD is required if the panels are exclusively on the garage portion of the roof? My guess is its probably yes. The reason I ask is from a commercial point of view microinverters or optimizers are "easy" for an installer (within some large limits). Conventional string inverters require some customization and more inventory at the shop. Therefore, an installer can buy in bulk and roll up to job site with standardized components with far less planning time. The trade off is extra cost and complexity. I have seen ground mounts with zero shading issues installed with microinverters. In the one I got to see up close it would have been far better served with a single string inverter with dual MPTT inputs and a bit more snow tolerant installation (lower edge way too low to deal with accumulation).
I have three arrays, the oldest is an old timer, twenty years, the next one is 15 years old and the newest is about 10 years old. My original inverter died after 18 years (well over the expected 10). I didnt have a lot of options for a new inverter due to its size so I got it running with used Enphase microinverters installed in an unusual location (in my basement instead of behind the panels) The 15 year old array is on its second string inverter as the first one got zapped by a utility surge and the installed surge arrestor did not save it. Array number 3 is still humming along. The price of string inverters has dropped over the years and a replacement would cost far less. I have spare inverter with dual MPPT that would cover two of the string arrays. To date, zero panel failures which is typical, unless a consumer gets a bad batch, panels rarely fail if they are good out of the box.
One thing to request is good quality surge suppressor on the solar array circuit. The one that has an excellent reputation is a Midnight Solar SPD. It has a low clamp voltage that will probably keep your inverters from getting fried in a surge. There can be internal surges inside a house so it is better to have the SPD installed on the actual solar circuit than on the main panel (although putting one on your main panel is definitely a good idea).
If you are thinking of expanding the system in the future just remember that identical panels are rarely available for much more than a year or two. Therefore, expanding a system means have mismatching panels, not an issue if they are out of sight but to some the aesthetics of mismatched panels is an issue. Speaking of mismatched panels, if you have kids near the panels or near a golf course consider buying a spare panel and storing it in out of the way protected location, (panels are relatively cheap these days). I am not aware of many installation firms that maintain long term inventory of spare identical panels, therefore if one gets physically damaged in a few years unless you get lucky on buying a used panel off of Ebay, you are out of luck. With microinverters or optimizers you can just leave the dead panel in place, with a string inverter you may be able to just wire past it but if the panel is shattered in either case you are out of luck. Panels are lot more damage resistant than they appear, but they still get shattered on occasion from various external impacts.
I have three arrays, the oldest is an old timer, twenty years, the next one is 15 years old and the newest is about 10 years old. My original inverter died after 18 years (well over the expected 10). I didnt have a lot of options for a new inverter due to its size so I got it running with used Enphase microinverters installed in an unusual location (in my basement instead of behind the panels) The 15 year old array is on its second string inverter as the first one got zapped by a utility surge and the installed surge arrestor did not save it. Array number 3 is still humming along. The price of string inverters has dropped over the years and a replacement would cost far less. I have spare inverter with dual MPPT that would cover two of the string arrays. To date, zero panel failures which is typical, unless a consumer gets a bad batch, panels rarely fail if they are good out of the box.
One thing to request is good quality surge suppressor on the solar array circuit. The one that has an excellent reputation is a Midnight Solar SPD. It has a low clamp voltage that will probably keep your inverters from getting fried in a surge. There can be internal surges inside a house so it is better to have the SPD installed on the actual solar circuit than on the main panel (although putting one on your main panel is definitely a good idea).
If you are thinking of expanding the system in the future just remember that identical panels are rarely available for much more than a year or two. Therefore, expanding a system means have mismatching panels, not an issue if they are out of sight but to some the aesthetics of mismatched panels is an issue. Speaking of mismatched panels, if you have kids near the panels or near a golf course consider buying a spare panel and storing it in out of the way protected location, (panels are relatively cheap these days). I am not aware of many installation firms that maintain long term inventory of spare identical panels, therefore if one gets physically damaged in a few years unless you get lucky on buying a used panel off of Ebay, you are out of luck. With microinverters or optimizers you can just leave the dead panel in place, with a string inverter you may be able to just wire past it but if the panel is shattered in either case you are out of luck. Panels are lot more damage resistant than they appear, but they still get shattered on occasion from various external impacts.
Im leaning towards micro inverters from enphase and REC Alpha 400 watt panels. Great idea to get a couple spare panels . I hoping on making my final desison this week!
semipro
Minister of Fire
If you start with a centralized inverter (e.g. Solaredge) you may still be able to expand later by adding panels and microinverters.
That is what I've done. We started with a central 8.5kW system and have added other panels and microinverters to increase overall output.
I like the idea of buying some spare panels also. I wish I had. Panel size is not as standard as many seem to think. When I added 6 panels to our existing 30-panel array it was tough to find some that matched.
You can even use the spare panels in other odd locations with microinverters if you like. We plan to use one of ours for an entry cover.
Solarguy3500
Feeling the Heat
This is true. You could add on to a Solaredge system with micros, and sometimes it's the best option available.
For example, in MA there is a 10 kW AC system size limit in order to be exempt from the net metering cap system and preserve full value net metering. So, if a person has a system with a Solaredge 7600W inverter and they want to add on, even the smallest inverter that Solaredge makes, a 3000 would put them over the 10 kW limit, but they could add a few micro inverters and still stay under 10 kW.
One thing to consider is that if you're the kind of person who cares about monitoring your system and you have both inverter systems, you'd have 2 separate monitoring portals with different logins and 2 different apps on your phone to monitor the 2 parts of the system. Not necessarily a negative, but it could get a little cumbersome. Some people don't even care about monitoring, so for them this wouldn't be an issue at all.
Thats good to know Maine has something similar anything over 10k there is a big to do. That's one of the reasons I was sold on the mirco inverters and with the new Enphase inverters they work off grid
Definitely take a look of the extra cost for off grid functionality and if all the components are available. This capability from Enphase was reportedly "vaporware" for quite a while. IQ8s were being sold as "off grid ready" but all the parts and the battery were not ready. BTW, many inverters are off grid ready if there is an AC hybrid coupled inverter with battery somewhere in the loop. My orphan system of 2 older string inverters and 4 old Enphase microinverters synch up fine to my hybrid inverter with utility power turned off. It is real hard to justify the cost of the extra gear unless there are strong battery incentives in place. The reality is a $500 generator and can of gas will give you more automony 24/7 if power outages are rare. Unless you have a huge battery, you are out of luck at night or when it is not sunny. If you are in area with very undependable power with frequent outages, then its worth looking at AC coupling with a large battery and inverter that can handle a generator input.
I think the older Solaredge stuff was pretty solid. My Solaredge SE5000 inverter and 20 optimizers on my 5.4 kw system will hit 6 years this May and I have had zero issues with them.
They seem to have a lower failure rate of the optimizers versus microinverters.
The only thing I see frequently on the various forums is communication issues with the "mothership". They still put out power but reporting and visibility of the array diagnostics (which panels are working and their individual output) can be impacted. I think the homeowner expectation and maybe the Solaredge requirement is the original installer has responsibility to deal with these issues. If there is a problem and the original installer is unwilling or no longer in business than the homeowner is stuck until they locate another installer. Some installers reportedly charge significant service fees for that privilege.
Solarguy3500
Feeling the Heat
Sounds like you have one of the older A series Solaredge inverters. If you look at the sticker with the model number and serial number, does the model number end with A or H? Example: SE5000A
If it's an A series, I agree that those were more reliable and robust, but I don't have enough evidence to make a blanket statement that it was definitely when they changed to the "HD Wave" or H series that the reliability issues started. It was around that timeframe, but there were other factors at play, such as Solaredge ramping up their manufacturing to meet demand, so it could be something else, but in general I do think the older A series inverters we're more reliable, though I have seen some of them fail too.
Seems like this equipment is still to new to determine real world lifespan. We were faced with the same questions for our install. I have worked with electronics for a long time. It's well known that capacitors will dry out after time. Add heat and their lifespan decreases. Early tests and dissection of Enphase microverters showed this achilles heel until Enphase took the writers to court and suppressed reviews. They were using cheap foil wrap capacitors. When speccing our system 12 yrs ago I passed on them in spite of their advantages. Our Aurora Power One series setup has had no downtime in 11 yrs. I expect it to go a full 20 yrs. When and if it fails, technology will probably have developed to the point where a total replacement makes sense. By then I hope to be able to switch to a reliable microverter setup with 25%+ efficient panels.
RustyShackleford
Minister of Fire
Haven't read through the whole thread, so maybe this is irrelevant ... I went with an SMA SunnyBoy inverter because of their "secure power supply" feature, which allows it to provide up to 2000 watts of power when the grid is down (and the sun is shining). I'm not quite sure how this interacts with the rapid-shutdown requirement though, because I did a ground-mount system.
Solarguy3500
Feeling the Heat
Update:
My SE inverter failed again after 1 year. So, here's my track record so far:
System installed in March 2020, first inverter failed in early March 2021, second inverter failed in late February 2022.
Wow that's some bad luck solar guy. I feel confident in my decision. My site vist is this Thursday finally gonna know what my system design is going to look like
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