Is the Classic E 2300 a gassifier OWB or how are they meeting a EPA rating? I am wanting a gassifier but am having trouble with where to put it do to insurance restrictions.
Classic E 2300
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There were a couple at the show in Essex Jct. last weekend. I looked them over pretty good. Craig has some nice photos of the inside and outside in the Logging Expo HUGE thread.
I talked to one of the dealers and a factory rep at the show. I was not impressed with their knowledge of the product, or at least their willingness to share whatever knowledge they might have had. They claim that slot at the bottom of the firebox is not a nozzle. The steel assembly they likened to a grate. The dealer had never seen one operate. He said that his understanding was that you get some smoke, though a lot less than a conventional OWB. Both the factory rep and the dealer claimed that it's not a gasifier. But when I pointed out that the cutaway is basically a European-style downdraft gasifier, they pretty much confirmed that it's supposed to work like one.
So I don't know. I sure wouldn't buy one before they had been in the field for a couple of years and I could find out how they work. Or if they work.
I think the only fan is a draft induction unit.
I hope they work, because we really do need some good outdoor gasifiers on the market. It looks to be well built and presumably, well designed.
I talked to one of the dealers and a factory rep at the show. I was not impressed with their knowledge of the product, or at least their willingness to share whatever knowledge they might have had. They claim that slot at the bottom of the firebox is not a nozzle. The steel assembly they likened to a grate. The dealer had never seen one operate. He said that his understanding was that you get some smoke, though a lot less than a conventional OWB. Both the factory rep and the dealer claimed that it's not a gasifier. But when I pointed out that the cutaway is basically a European-style downdraft gasifier, they pretty much confirmed that it's supposed to work like one.
So I don't know. I sure wouldn't buy one before they had been in the field for a couple of years and I could find out how they work. Or if they work.
I think the only fan is a draft induction unit.
I hope they work, because we really do need some good outdoor gasifiers on the market. It looks to be well built and presumably, well designed.
Eric, point and a question. When I talked to one of the salesmen at CB, he told me pretty much the same thing as you were told. But when I pressed him about how it works, it pretty much sounds like a downdraft gasifier to me. So I'm thinking that the reason they don't want to call the nozzle a nozzle, ans the reaction chamber a gasification chamber is to use the psycology of bigger, badder, and more extreme must be better? If they use the same terminalogy as a foreign/cheaper unit then what would they have to brag about to make their unit the best buy?
Secondly, did you see or hear anything about the unit needing a 20lb propane cylinder attached to it to help burn the gasses at idle? I heard something about that on another site/forum a while back and cannot find the site again.
Thanks!
Chris
Edit ~ this is another reason why I am wanting to see the Woodmaster gasifier coming out this summer. When I talked to the owner of woodmaster, right off the bat he told me their unit was a downdraft gasifier, and talked in terminology that the layman can understand to make an informed decision. I didn't get pumped up full of BS like I did with CB, and in this day and age when a dollar doesn't go very far, the last place I'm going to spend my money is with a salesman who doesn't know their product, nor the actual names of the parts within their design. Central would get alot farther if they get rid of the ex used car salesmen, and get some technically competent salesmen on their team. Just my opinion of course.
Secondly, did you see or hear anything about the unit needing a 20lb propane cylinder attached to it to help burn the gasses at idle? I heard something about that on another site/forum a while back and cannot find the site again.
Thanks!
Chris
Edit ~ this is another reason why I am wanting to see the Woodmaster gasifier coming out this summer. When I talked to the owner of woodmaster, right off the bat he told me their unit was a downdraft gasifier, and talked in terminology that the layman can understand to make an informed decision. I didn't get pumped up full of BS like I did with CB, and in this day and age when a dollar doesn't go very far, the last place I'm going to spend my money is with a salesman who doesn't know their product, nor the actual names of the parts within their design. Central would get alot farther if they get rid of the ex used car salesmen, and get some technically competent salesmen on their team. Just my opinion of course.
A valid one, IMO.
The E has a "dual fuel" option, which I don't quite understand, but that's what it says on their website.
The E has a "dual fuel" option, which I don't quite understand, but that's what it says on their website.
- Mar 5, 2008
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Hi all -
the dual fuel model lets the unit run on propane if the wood fire goes out and the house calls for heat. It also gives you the option of using propane to start a fire and for the propane to fire for a short burst when the unit comes out of idle to help get the temp back up and minimize smoke. This is an option package and makes the unit more expensive. The wood only model uses no fossil fuels - just electricity for the fan, lights, and pumps.
Pete
the dual fuel model lets the unit run on propane if the wood fire goes out and the house calls for heat. It also gives you the option of using propane to start a fire and for the propane to fire for a short burst when the unit comes out of idle to help get the temp back up and minimize smoke. This is an option package and makes the unit more expensive. The wood only model uses no fossil fuels - just electricity for the fan, lights, and pumps.
Pete
I must be doing something wrong, 'cause with the GW, to make it 'smoke free', I make sure to load it appropriatly (just enough fuel to sustain heat production for the time required, and use dry, solid fuel). I guess I need to hook up some propane to it to make it smoke free instead of actually being responsible about the way I load it.
Hmmm, I wonder if I could burn tires in it smoke free if I added enough propane?
Hmmm, I wonder if I could burn tires in it smoke free if I added enough propane?
(broken link removed to http://www.epa.gov/woodheaters/models.htm) Looking at the site for cleaner owb the 2300 is the best out there. does anyone know if these are independent tests??? If so it looks like I may have found my stove.
Johnny Ringo said:
The Central is measured at .31 lbs of particulate emissions per million BTU of heat output. That makes it clean for an OWB, and much better than some of the others. This is progress,
By comparison, the EKO 80 measured 2.3 grams per hour, or .018 lbs/million BTU in European certified independent tests. I suspect that other true gasifiers would be in the same range. This shows just how far it's possible to go in terms of burning wood cleanly. There are even cleaner models being built in Europe now.
Pook said:
What's it rated for? 18k is pretty low output.
It's more than 6 times the particulate pollution of the Central 2300, and 113 times as much as the EKO 80.
RE: EPA test.
Once again our dear friends in the federal gubmint have come up with a rating system that has little relationship to real world conditions. The test procedure is about as far from real life as you can get. From what I have read/heard the wood used is sawn into rectangular blocks and is kiln dried to less than 20% moisture. The wood is then stacked, crib style in the firebox and burned at 25%, 50% and 100% load. The results are averaged which really helps out the units that idle a lot because the cleanest burn is always at full throttle. If they had to pass solely at 25% or 50% they wouldn't be able to meet the standard. (That is the reason BTW that you do not see Garn on the EPA list even though it is reputed to be cleaner than anything else tested. It can't burn at 25 or 50% load.) This test bears about as much resemblance to real world conditions as the stupid AFUE rating found on gas and oil appliances.
I'll say it once again, I wouldn't trust anything said or any claim made by CB or their salesmen regarding their product. I've seen way too many people get burned by misleading statements, false claims or outright lies to recommend a CB product to anyone. My experience with CB has mainly been when a frustrated homeowner calls me to try and pin down what is "wrong" with their system after the CB guys quit returning phone calls. In most cases there is nothing "wrong" with the boiler other than the fact that it's working as designed.
Once again our dear friends in the federal gubmint have come up with a rating system that has little relationship to real world conditions. The test procedure is about as far from real life as you can get. From what I have read/heard the wood used is sawn into rectangular blocks and is kiln dried to less than 20% moisture. The wood is then stacked, crib style in the firebox and burned at 25%, 50% and 100% load. The results are averaged which really helps out the units that idle a lot because the cleanest burn is always at full throttle. If they had to pass solely at 25% or 50% they wouldn't be able to meet the standard. (That is the reason BTW that you do not see Garn on the EPA list even though it is reputed to be cleaner than anything else tested. It can't burn at 25 or 50% load.) This test bears about as much resemblance to real world conditions as the stupid AFUE rating found on gas and oil appliances.
I'll say it once again, I wouldn't trust anything said or any claim made by CB or their salesmen regarding their product. I've seen way too many people get burned by misleading statements, false claims or outright lies to recommend a CB product to anyone. My experience with CB has mainly been when a frustrated homeowner calls me to try and pin down what is "wrong" with their system after the CB guys quit returning phone calls. In most cases there is nothing "wrong" with the boiler other than the fact that it's working as designed.
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