Clay Liner

[atsykora]

A real newbie here, I am sure that during my whole life I burned no more then 10 logs of wood, LOL.

Last wee I had a contractor in my house to estimate cost of installing Hearthstone Clydesdale fireplace insert.
It turned out that my chimney already has clay liner, roughly 7"x7", square. Also I've been told that MA building code requires full length _CLAY_ or SS liner and my setup allows me to chose between relining full length ( 25' ) with SS or do a partial setup.

Most of posts/articles that I've seen were "SS liner versus no liner at all" like this one ((broken link removed)). I'm buying into that part, I need a liner, but how to determine whether I need to reline existing clay liner? The existing one is pretty close to specs in terms of size. Another argument for relining would be much easier to do a sweep, with partial install I imagine I'd have to slide the insert out to do it properly, is it true?

Some info about my setup:
- 40 years old house;
- chimney is inside the house;
- insert goes into existing fireplace that doesn't look like it has been used a lot;

Later in my conversation with dealer (the guy in this business for more then 20 years) he said a very strange thing, he cautioned me not to reline to prevent OVERDRAFT which can lover efficiency of the insert, he said it is mostly applicable to inserts because you do not have a dumper in this setup. I would love to hear comments on this statement too.

 

[PAJerry]

avt, you came to the right place. There are a lot of real experts here and I'm sure you'll hear from them soon. I'm certainly no expert but what I've learned here says that you need the SS liner for a proper install. As far as the 'overdraft' thing and inserts, it doesn't seem to make sense. They all have a damper system. If yours does not, look for one that does.

 

[elkimmeg]

We neeed more facts You did not menntion the condition of your clay flues or the verticle length.
It is an interior chimney and if the flue condition is good, you have the ideal setup interion 8/8 clay flue to connect to.
I see no reason to line it. As abuilding / mechanical inspector in MA. there is no code requiring it to be lined

 

[Sundeep Arole]

A real newbie here, I am sure that during my whole life I burned no more then 10 logs of wood, LOL.

Last wee I had a contractor in my house to estimate cost of installing Hearthstone Clydesdale fireplace insert.
It turned out that my chimney already has clay liner, roughly 7"x7", square. Also I've been told that MA building code requires full length _CLAY_ or SS liner and my setup allows me to chose between relining full length ( 25' ) with SS or do a partial setup.

Good choice on the insert. That insert is pretty big. I presume you have a large house? There are a few clydesdale owners on this board who can help you with specifics.

Most of posts/articles that I've seen were "SS liner versus no liner at all" like this one ((broken link removed)). I'm buying into that part, I need a liner, but how to determine whether I need to reline existing clay liner? The existing one is pretty close to specs in terms of size. Another argument for relining would be much easier to do a sweep, with partial install I imagine I'd have to slide the insert out to do it properly, is it true?

In terms of size, the flue outlet diameter of the clydesdale 6" round. You can run a small piece of liner from the insert to the point where the existing clay liner begins, and if your
existing clay liner is in good shape (not cracked, etc.) this will ba a valid setup. However, when it comes time to sweep the chimney, you will have to pull the insert out and clean around it, just like you pointed out. Also, remember that 7x7 liner has 49 sq inches area, while a 6in round has 28 sq in area. So you are oversizing by almost 75% at the clay liner. It is legal to do, and
perhaps things will work just fine, but the best job would ensure you don't oversize at all, and run a liner all the way to the top. It will make it much easier to sweep as well. Of course, economics will determine a big part of this; if you have a very tall chimney it could ba a lot of $$ for the extra pipe. But if you have a short chimney and can reline fully with a 20' or 25' reline kit, the added money is small and very well spent, IMHO. You won't need insulation around the liner.

Some info about my setup:
- 40 years old house;
- chimney is inside the house;
- insert goes into existing fireplace that doesn't look like it has been used a lot;

How tall is the chimney?

[/quote]
Later in my conversation with dealer (the guy in this business for more then 20 years) he said a very strange thing, he cautioned me not to reline to prevent OVERDRAFT which can lover efficiency of the insert, he said it is mostly applicable to inserts because you do not have a dumper in this setup. I would love to hear comments on this statement too.[/quote]

If you chimney is very tall, you may have this issue. The manual for the clydesdale will tell you the minimum and maximum recommended chimney height. Do you have a height bigger than that? If so, he might have thought that the clay liner being a bit cooler than the stainless will reduce draft somewhat compensating for the increased draft due to chimney height. I don't know, though. His statement about the damper is correct, if you have too much draft you could partially close the damper and reduce the draft. Or you could have a barometric damper which
does this automatically. However, I thought I read once that barometric dampers are not allowed in a woodburning setup. However I don't know why. Perhaps someone can explain it agan?

 

[Shane]

If it overdrafts with a liner install a barometric damper. Though an 7x7 interior will probably draft pretty good without a ss liner. I like having things lined all the way and we charge less to clean them.

 

[atsykora]

Wow, thank to all who responded so quickly, honestly I didn't expect that more then a couple of folks even read this forum at spring, impressive.

How tall is the chimney?

The chimney is just over 21' high from the point where liner would be connected to the insert. After reading your kind responses and some more articles on this site I decided to to install a SS liner myself (at least I'll make an attempt, lol).

Here are the reasons:
- easier to sweep with the full length liner for years to come;
- installation "by design" (after all I am an engineer);
- I found that liner kits are not that expensive (ebay, 316Ti, UL listed);
http://cgi.ebay.com/6-X-25-SS-FLEXI...ryZ20598QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
- nobody opposes having the liner, worst case scenario I'll waste 325 or so on something that I didn't really need;
- I'm not sure that the existing clay liner is in acceptable condition;

Am I too ambitious?
I just can't imagine how installing flexible liner (not the insert) with somebodies help could be out of my reach.
After glancing through the User Manual my first though was that delivery and installation using existing liner would be well worth $400.

 

[Todd]

I think your making the right decision, but before you buy your liner check the inside diameter of you chimney tile flue to make sure the liner will fit. There may also be offsets or mortar blocking the way. Also clean it out before installing the liner. Good luck

 

[thechimneysweep]

You've made the right decision. Hearthstone's Clydesdale Insert weighs 585 lbs, and is not something you want to have to remove and re-install every time you sweep the chimney.

 

[Turner-n-Burner]

avt,
Where are you located? I'm in Burlington MA, and I'm also planning to instally a clydesdale before next winter. FWIW, I'll be going with a full liner and probably insulate it as well. It would be interesting to compare notes - maybe we can even help each other out if the distance is reasonable.

looks like you found a great price on that liner!


-Dan

 

[skypager]

That liner will work for you just fine. You will need another component though. That kit is set up a free standing reline - see the tee. You'll toss the tee and you'll need whats commonly called a flex to ridgid connector. Your local stove shop should have them. Oh, don't forget the silicone sealant for the plate on top of the clay flue and something to seal the damper area so you don't loose heat up the chimney.