Clayton 1600 Firing Issues

[Woodenator]

Hey fellas, I have a Clayton 1600 wood furnace that I had a hard time keeping under control last winter. I would load the wood stove up to the top of the fire bricks with hardwood. I could get a nice fire going but after a few hours for whatever reason it would try to run away sporadically. It doesn't happen everytime but it has done it enough that I don't trust to run it while my family and I are away or asleep.

One night at 3am, I woke up to house that was very warm inside enough so that i went down to check on it and as soon as i opeded the basement door i could feel it was way too hot. The flu pipe was at 500 degrees according to my IR thermometer but i think there was some ash or creosote insulating the pipe falseifying the reading. I opened the door and it was a raging inferno, enough so that my butt puckered immediately. I shut it down quick and got it under control however that was the last time it ran during the night.

I can barely have the spin draft intake control open maybe a spin or two but it seems like it just gets hotter and hotter over the course of a few hours or so.

My setup is as follows, 6" 90 degree elbow right off the furnace to a horizontal run of 3 or 4 feet straight into a 6" double wall chimney that's 25ft tall. I also have a Fields Control barometric damper installed and set to a .05wc verified by a permanently mounted Dawyer manometer. I called US Stove to verify the baro damper with wood and they said it was OK to use. This furnace also has no electronic controls whatsoever. The previous owner either removed everything or it was removed prior to him acquiring it.

I was tossing around the idea of removing the baro and instead installing a MPD to see if it controlled the air flow better to keep the fire damped down. My draft has reached .11 before the baro was installed. I'm trying to find a way to have a nice steady burn and get longer than 3-4hrs burn. I did manage to speak to the previous owner and he stated that they had to check on the furnace every hour to make sure it wasn't running away on them. He said they never trusted it either. I just moved into this house a year ago so I need to keep this heater for atleast 2-3yrs before I upgrade when funds allow.

 

[Woodenator]

I also have an oil furnace as backup but with the cost of oil I only run it at night or when we're not home. Oh there on separate flu systems by the way. I still went through over 500 gallons of heating oil. My house is an insulated 1,550 square foot, 2 story house without including the basement which is where the Clayton resides.

 

[Woodenator]

No opinions?

 

[brenndatomu]

Things get pretty slow around here in the summer...I'd leave the baro damper...check the door seals, make sure you don't have an air leak.
You could try setting your baro to -0.04" too...

 

[hobbyheater]

Sounds like when the moisture is cooked out of the wood the whole charge ignites!

 

[brenndatomu]

Sounds like when the moisture is cooked out of the wood the whole charge ignites!

Good point, could be having to leave the draft open further than optimal due to sub par wood, then when it dries out the whole thing has a huge wood gas bloom, and its off to the races!
That's when its nice having an actively managed lambda machine, right HH?!

 

[Woodenator]

Good point, could be having to leave the draft open further than optimal due to sub par wood, then when it dries out the whole thing has a huge wood gas bloom, and its off to the races!
That's when its nice having an actively managed lambda machine, right HH?!

Most of the wood tested at 25% or less. I do get a build up of cresote around the baro into the chimney. Seals were replaced last year and I tested them afterwards also. I just thought a manual damper would help keep things under control better than a baro. I did test at .04wc but didn't notice much difference between that and .06wc. Baro flap does like to accumulate cresote after while so I have to keep adjusting the weight from time to time.

 

[brenndatomu]

25% is very wet...20% is barely adequate.
At 25%, if you load 100lbs of wood, you just loaded 3 gallons of water...you are gonna have creosote (unless burning wide open maybe, like with a boiler/storage setup, but it is still very inefficient!)

 

[Woodenator]

25% is very wet...20% is barely adequate.
At 25%, if you load 100lbs of wood, you just loaded 3 gallons of water...you are gonna have creosote (unless burning wide open maybe, like with a boiler/storage setup, but it is still very inefficient!)

Yea 25% was a small percentage, maybe half a face cord over 3 month period. What wood i have this year is 15% sounds like bowling pins when you knock them together. The problem is I need 5 more cords to get thru the winter. Having a really hard time find a place to cut dead standing this year, suppliers want 300.00 a cord aswell. I been looking for wood since this past March without any luck.

 

[hobbyheater]

Good point, could be having to leave the draft open further than optimal due to sub par wood, then when it dries out the whole thing has a huge wood gas bloom, and its off to the races!
That's when its nice having an actively managed lambda machine, right HH?!

When the down draft lambda has been burning for about a hour and you open the loading, it is surprising to see how much water is being cooked out of the wood. Wood that is at 14% moisture content.

 

[brenndatomu]

When the down draft lambda has been burning for about a hour and you open the loading, it is surprising to see how much water is being cooked out of the wood. Wood that is at 14% moisture content.

I agree, my brother has a HeatMaster, so I'm familiar with the goopy mess in the upper chamber....totally white dry powder in the bottom though!

 

[Woodenator]

I try to keep the moisture content low as I can. I think the problem I'm having with cresote is coming from the baro. I try to burn it on the hotter side to counteract the cooler air being sucked into the flue but it doesn't seem to be enough. That why I figured if I used the MPD that it would keep the gases in the flue hotter and reduce the volume of air up the pipe to calm the fire down. I did try buying some wood last year but guess what like I figured most of it was to wet to even try to burn. I cracked open every piece to sort it out. Some of the oak was 30% plus and it was sold as dry seasoned wood. The oak had checks and was dry on the outside but the middle was dark color and wet. I won't buy wood anymore, there no reason it has to be 300.00 plus per cord. Heating oil cost me 12.00 a day to burn, wood would be 10.00 a day at 300 per cord. That's why I try to cut my own, if I have to but wood I might aswell just burn oil.

 

[brenndatomu]

Some of the oak was 30% plus and it was sold as dry seasoned wood. The oak had checks and was dry on the outside but the middle was dark color and wet.

Oak will crack in a few days after being bucked to length...cracking doesn't mean much, as you found.

That why I figured if I used the MPD that it would keep the gases in the flue hotter and reduce the volume of air up the pipe to calm the fire down.

It might help clean the flue up a lil, but I am almost sure its not going to fix the runaway fire issue.
Don't take the baro our, just cover it with a piece of heavy aluminum foil...then add your MPD in nearby...that way the baro is still there if/when you need it again

 

[salecker]

The cresote comes from the wet wood
The baro does not make cresote
You need to get ahead of the wood demand and have a couple years worth put up so it can season.
Burning wood requires a lot of planning and physical work, or you suffer the consequences.

 

[brenndatomu]

You need to get ahead of the wood demand and have a couple years worth put up so it can season.

This ^ ^ ^ !!
Oak needs 3 years in the stacks after splitting.
Its about the only thing you can do to reduce creosote while running an old school wood furnace like a Clayton.
Now if you are committed to wood heat (sounds like you might be) then you really need to consider upgrading to a modern wood furnace, of which my strong recommendation will be a Kuuma Vaporfire 100...they run a baro and you can still clean the chimney every other year. (running dry wood of course) heck the owner of Lamppa MFG (Kuuma) said he has never cleaned his chimney since the early 80s, annual inspection only!
They're on sale until the end of the month too... (broken link removed)

 

[Woodenator]

This ^ ^ ^ !!
Oak needs 3 years in the stacks after splitting.
Its about the only thing you can do to reduce creosote while running an old school wood furnace like a Clayton.
Now if you are committed to wood heat (sounds like you might be) then you really need to consider upgrading to a modern wood furnace, of which my strong recommendation will be a Kuuma Vaporfire 100...they run a baro and you can still clean the chimney every other year. (running dry wood of course) heck the owner of Lamppa MFG (Kuuma) said he has never cleaned his chimney since the early 80s, annual inspection only!
They're on sale until the end of the month too... (broken link removed)

Oh I'd love to upgrade, however getting this house has wiped me out. Have a wife and 2 kids it's gunna take a couple of years to save up to get one. Especially how bad inflation is, one can't hardly afford to live anymore. I'm definitely committed burning wood. I enjoy sawing up logs, splitting and stacking wood. I did get a countyline 25 ton splitter last fall and split about a cord or so of black locust, maple, oak with it. I understand having atleast 2-3 years ahead on wood which i would be if I could find any to cut. I'm looking constantly for ads, looking along side the road and calling landowners. Nobody wants to leave me cut on there land cause of liability. Anything free I find is to far to drive, or so deep in the woods I'd have to carry each piece out a few at a time. I don't have a atv or big tractor. My health is good but not the best so carrying so far just isn't an option.

 

[brenndatomu]

Oh I'd love to upgrade, however getting this house has wiped me out. Have a wife and 2 kids it's gunna take a couple of years to save up to get one. Especially how bad inflation is, one can't hardly afford to live anymore

Understand.
If you are vigilant and just keep your eyes n ears open, sooner or later there will be wood turn up...you could even sign up for Chip Drop...its for tree trimmers and arborists looking for a free place to dump chips, and logs/wood...you can opt out for the chips and just take firewood, and also specify things like "no pine", or whatever. You have to have a place that they can back their trucks into and dump, and you never know exactly what you'll get, (as far as species, and/or possibly sometimes large or "ugly" wood) but hey, its still free wood, dropped right in your driveway!
Some people sign up and never get a delivery, some people get so much they have to put a pause on accepting delivery's! Just depends on where you live, and how many places local tree guys have to get rid of wood.

Free Wood Chip Mulch from ChipDrop

Helping gardeners get free mulch. Helping arborists empty their trucks.

getchipdrop.com

The other thing is to get a liability waiver for landowners to sign allowing you to cut on their property...that will help grease the wheels a lil sometimes. I have a good one I can give you if you send me a PM.

 

[Woodenator]

Understand.
If you are vigilant and just keep your eyes n ears open, sooner or later there will be wood turn up...you could even sign up for Chip Drop...its for tree trimmers and arborists looking for a free place to dump chips, and logs/wood...you can opt out for the chips and just take firewood, and also specify things like "no pine", or whatever. You have to have a place that they can back their trucks into and dump, and you never know exactly what you'll get, (as far as species, and/or possibly sometimes large or "ugly" wood) but hey, its still free wood, dropped right in your driveway!
Some people sign up and never get a delivery, some people get so much they have to put a pause on accepting delivery's! Just depends on where you live, and how many places local tree guys have to get rid of wood.

Free Wood Chip Mulch from ChipDrop

Helping gardeners get free mulch. Helping arborists empty their trucks.

getchipdrop.com

The other thing is to get a liability waiver for landowners to sign allowing you to cut on their property...that will help grease the wheels a lil sometimes. I have a good one I can give you if you send me a PM.

Yea I'll do that...

 

[Woodenator]

It's so frustrating, where I live it's heavily forested. Heck driving down the road I can spot tons of beautiful dead standing trees but I can't touch any of it. I have 1 place I can cut but I have to carry out every piece 1 at a time. I did that last year to get me through the last bit of the heating season but my elbows and knees killed me for weeks after doing that. I thought about hooking up my garden tractor with a wagon and seeing if I can get into the woods with it. It's a 15hp lawn tractor with chevron rear tires. I use it around the house to pull firewood from the pile to the house. Problem is the terrain is uphill an not very tractor friendly but that's all I have.

 

[brenndatomu]

lawn tractor with chevron rear tires

Almost helpless off road...a pair of ag tread tires make a HUGE difference!

 

[Woodenator]

Almost helpless off road...a pair of ag tread tires make a HUGE difference!

Yea Ag tread is what's on them not chevron. Srry bout that.

 

[sloeffle]

Heating oil cost me 12.00 a day to burn, wood would be 10.00 a day at 300 per cord. That's why I try to cut my own, if I have to but wood I might aswell just burn oil.

Any idea how many BTU/hr it takes to heat your place ? I have a 4 ton geo unit and if it ran 24 hours a day, it would cost me $10 a day in electric to run it.

Have you done any air sealing / insulation upgrades ? Insulation and air sealing pay you back 24x7 and you only have to do it once ( hopefully ).

 

[Woodenator]

Any idea how many BTU/hr it takes to heat your place ? I have a 4 ton geo unit and if it ran 24 hours a day, it would cost me $10 a day in electric to run it.

Have you done any air sealing / insulation upgrades ? Insulation and air sealing pay you back 24x7 and you only have to do it once ( hopefully ).

Yes the house is insulated, plus all new Pella windows were installed a year or 2 before I got the place. I don't know how many btu/hr it takes.

 

[JRHAWK9]

I thought about hooking up my garden tractor with a wagon and seeing if I can get into the woods with it

This is exactly what I did for a couple of years before I bought my Kuuma (spring '14) and ATV (late summer '14). I used our 2004ish John Deere L110 (removed the mower deck) with one of those 10 CY dump carts that I extended the sides vertically to double it's volume. I put spiked chains over the rear turf tires of the L110 to get traction. It worked fine on clear ground as long as it wasn't too muddy. I had to make sure I cleared a good path as I couldn't drive over much with it or over terrain that needed suspension articulation. There was one area where there was a decent incline on the way out of the woods. I'd literally lift the front tires driving out with a fully loaded cart. Our neighbor would laugh at me when he saw me driving through the woods with that thing . Surprisingly, the little L110 held up and is still going to this day. I did not treat it very well for those couple years in the woods. I overloaded the dump cart numerous times and had to re-bend the axle straight to keep the tires from rubbing.

Having said that, I don't really recommend you do what I did. I know I was on borrowed time if I continued to treat the L110 the way I was.

 

[Woodenator]

This is exactly what I did for a couple of years before I bought my Kuuma (spring '14) and ATV (late summer '14). I used our 2004ish John Deere L110 (removed the mower deck) with one of those 10 CY dump carts that I extended the sides vertically to double it's volume. I put spiked chains over the rear turf tires of the L110 to get traction. It worked fine on clear ground as long as it wasn't too muddy. I had to make sure I cleared a good path as I couldn't drive over much with it or over terrain that needed suspension articulation. There was one area where there was a decent incline on the way out of the woods. I'd literally lift the front tires driving out with a fully loaded cart. Our neighbor would laugh at me when he saw me driving through the woods with that thing . Surprisingly, the little L110 held up and is still going to this day. I did not treat it very well for those couple years in the woods. I overloaded the dump cart numerous times and had to re-bend the axle straight to keep the tires from rubbing.

Having said that, I don't really recommend you do what I did. I know I was on borrowed time if I continued to treat the L110 the way I was.

Yea I hear ya but I bet it was better than carrying out all that wood. Mine is a older cub cadet with a Cast iron rear end and I have Ag tires on it. It sure isn't made for pulling fire wood but I'd rather it give out than me lol. It's all I have to use, nobody else has anything. Hopefully this weekend I'll be able to try it out if I can find a place to go. I found a lead but we will see if it pans out or not.