CO2 to Fuel

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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Hearth Supporter
Nov 18, 2005
107,133
South Puget Sound, WA
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That's interesting for sure. It will be a good alternative.
 
It's a way of using massive amounts of electrical energy to produce a liquid fuel at VERY high cost.

Why bother when we can pump liquid fuels out of the ground, refine them at low cost and have a relatively cheap fuel?

It's an absurd proposition unless you want to price most people out of airplane car and ocean travel -----which is, of course the aim and heartfelt desire of many environmentalists.


No word about that in the video, of course.
 
It's a way of using massive amounts of electrical energy to produce a liquid fuel at VERY high cost.

Why bother when we can pump liquid fuels out of the ground, refine them at low cost and have a relatively cheap fuel?

It's an absurd proposition unless you want to price most people out of airplane car and ocean travel -----which is, of course the aim and heartfelt desire of many environmentalists.


No word about that in the video, of course.
No of course it isn't a viable solution right now. But neither were lots of other things we use daily now when they started. But if we wait till oil and gas become scarce where will we be? We need to be developing alternatives now.
 
No of course it isn't a viable solution right now. But neither were lots of other things we use daily now when they started. But if we wait till oil and gas become scarce where will we be? We need to be developing alternatives now.


We've been running out of oil for 160 years, and the world has been massively increasing consumption at the same time we've been runing out. Result? We have more supplies than ever and a glut of the stuff.

This doesn't produce ANY energy. All it does is convert electricity into a liquid fuel way too expensive for anyone to use.

Frankly, we have lots of more important stuff to worry about than this kind of pipe dream.

Ridiculous.
 
We've been running out of oil for 160 years, and the world has been massively increasing consumption at the same time we've been runing out. Result? We have more supplies than ever and a glut of the stuff.

This doesn't produce ANY energy. All it does is convert electricity into a liquid fuel way too expensive for anyone to use.

Frankly, we have lots of more important stuff to worry about than this kind of pipe dream.

Ridiculous.
Yes and eventually we will run out of oil that is economically viable to get. When that does happen it would be much better if we already had alternatives in place. Like I said at this point this is far from a viable option. But if there is a cheap clean option for electrical generation developed maybe it would be.

Yes we do have more pressing issues to deal with. But I don't understand why so many want to wait till there is an energy crisis before working on it.
 
For those of us actually concerned with anthropogenic (largely from CO2 emission) climate change, the value here is being able to produce fuels compatible with current equipment WITHOUT digging more carbon out of the ground, the source of the problem we're trying to solve. This is one of those breakthroughs that needs intense development right now (to bring the price down). The potential to produce hydrocarbon fuels that recycle atmospheric CO2 become a proxy method of powering the current world with clean electricity.

Note this also requires hydrogen as input, which is largely derived from natural gas these days. There's plenty of work being done on that too, including- https://www.terrestrialenergy.com/2...n-hydrogen-with-generation-iv-nuclear-energy/
 
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We will never run out of Hydrocarbons. In the future the 1st shipment from Titan will happen. Will be demonstrations about spoiling the bio of Titan. Lots of methane and ethane
Are you serious?
 
He must be a fan of "The Expanse" ;)
 
Lots of things besides fuel made out of Hydrocarbons.
Yes absolutley. I was just questioning if you seriously think bringing fuel from Saturn's moon is a more viable option than developing alternatives here.
 
Why bother when we can pump liquid fuels out of the ground, refine them at low cost and have a relatively cheap fuel?
That completely ignores the cost of these practices. We've been doing it for a couple centuries and the toll on the planet is devastating. It's so serious that we are approaching an end game here.
 
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We will never run out of Hydrocarbons.
Probably true because we have no choice but to wean ourselves off of a carbon based energy cycle to more sustainable systems.
 
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Sure if we don't go back to the Stone Age. Who knows where we will be in say 200 years. Or even 50.
Why not put our efforts into alternatives here instead of bringing hydrocarbons from another celestial body to pump into our atmosphere.
 
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Humanity continues to get 80% of our energy from hydrocarbons, and that isn't changing, fads and fashions of western environmentalists notwithstanding.

Perhaps you didn't notice, but that video didn't even give an ESTIMATE for the cost/gallon of the liquid fuel they want to subsidize for gasoline or jet engine fuel.

WHY do you suppose they left out that detail?

And that would be using mostly cheap hydroelectric power from British Columbia. If they were serious about using unreliable, very expensive "renewable" electricity to produce their bogus fuel, the cost would be even more stratospheric.

How much would a seat on a jet airliner flying to Europe cost if the plane used that fuel? $3,000, $5,000? $10,000? The sky, so to speak, is the limit.

Seattle Pioneer
 
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If the true costs of fossil fuels were actualized gas would cost a magnitude more. As we approach the endgame this becomes all too apparent. Past habits are not sustainable, they belong back in the pioneer days. When you're stuck in a hole and trying to get out you don't keep trying to dig it deeper.
 
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Humanity continues to get 80% of our energy from hydrocarbons, and that isn't changing, fads and fashions of western environmentalists notwithstanding.

Perhaps you didn't notice, but that video didn't even give an ESTIMATE for the cost/gallon of the liquid fuel they want to subsidize for gasoline or jet engine fuel.

WHY do you suppose they left out that detail?

And that would be using mostly cheap hydroelectric power from British Columbia. If they were serious about using unreliable, very expensive "renewable" electricity to produce their bogus fuel, the cost would be even more stratospheric.

How much would a seat on a jet airliner flying to Europe cost if the plane used that fuel? $3,000, $5,000? $10,000? The sky, so to speak, is the limit.

Seattle Pioneer
So because that is how it has been done for the past 100 years or so we should bother to look for different possibly better solutions??? Where do you think we would be if everyone had that mentality? We certainly wouldnt have an internet to discuss this on. We wouldnt have cars to drive etc etc.

Fine you dont like this particular solution. It may never result in a viable fuel but we will never know if we dont look into it. And personally i would rather the us be on the cutting edge so we can benifit from the rewards instead of simply following others. Things will change no matter what you want.
 
Being on the cutting edge sounds a lot like the definition of being a pioneer.

Pioneer verb

To develop or be the first to use or apply (a new method, area of knowledge, or activity).
 
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Put it a different way...

The academics studying the economics of climate change (JesseJenkins on twitter has been my main source/feedpoint of info on this) seem to agree that most efficient way to curb emissions and mitigate climate change is to enact a Carbon Tax. Price the externalities of carbon emissions directly into the fuels. This makes ground-carbon-emitting sources of energy immediately painful to use and "clean" alternatives sought with intense rigor and opens up tons of investment money due to the obvious market for them.

This necessarily entails adding a significant tax, several $$ per gallon, to all fuels derived from the ground based on their CO2 emissions. I'm not sure if you would call this a "regressive" tax because generally speaking rich folks are responsible for the most CO2 per-capita, but it hurts poor and rich folks alike. A devil in the details is where does the Carbon Tax go, how is it redistributed and to whom. The riots in Paris right now are happening in part due to an attempt by Macron's administration to enact such a tax.

Should technology like this CO2-capture hydrocarbon fuel become commercially viable and developed to the point of it becoming affordable, it may end up being the affordable option since this should not be subject to the Carbon Tax.

In the absence of such a politically suicidal Carbon Tax, the next-best thing is to offer subsidies to clean or carbon-neutral energy sources to promote them. Woodstove change-outs might be considered a form of this, frankly, as are Electric Vehicle subsidies, charging station subsidies, etc. It's understood this is a variably-effective method of mitigating climate change factors and is still inferior to straight-out pricing the cost of CO2 emissions into the sources directly.

But folks should keep a keen eye on the fact that this Carbon Tax is a looming option that you can count on politicians introducing repeatedly over the next few decades.
 
Fine you dont like this particular solution. It may never result in a viable fuel but we will never know if we dont look into it. And personally i would rather the us be on the cutting edge so we can benifit from the rewards instead of simply following others. Things will change no matter what you want.


<<Fine you dont like this particular solution. It may never result in a viable fuel but we will never know if we dont look into it. And personally i would rather the us be on the cutting edge so we can benifit from the rewards instead of simply following others. Things will change no matter what you want.>>


Look at the economics. You are using electricity to make a liquid fuel. In short, you are using a very expensive manufactured energy source to replace a fuel that is efficiently pumoped out of the ground at low cost and refined and transported at low cost.
'
Even more ridiculous, our environmentalist friends are just chomping at the bit to use their hallowed "renwable" energy from solar and wind to make electricity at vast cost and reliability issues, and propose to use that very high priced energy to make another even higher priced energy.


It's absurd.
 
Some say environmentalist like a dirty word. Remember when rivers actually burst into flames? Love Canal, strip mining. Even if you don't believe in the greenhouse effect isn't the world nicer when you can breath the air and drink the water?

Environmentalist's, bunch a' book learned punks.
 
<<Fine you dont like this particular solution. It may never result in a viable fuel but we will never know if we dont look into it. And personally i would rather the us be on the cutting edge so we can benifit from the rewards instead of simply following others. Things will change no matter what you want.>>


Look at the economics. You are using electricity to make a liquid fuel. In short, you are using a very expensive manufactured energy source to replace a fuel that is efficiently pumoped out of the ground at low cost and refined and transported at low cost.
'
Even more ridiculous, our environmentalist friends are just chomping at the bit to use their hallowed "renwable" energy from solar and wind to make electricity at vast cost and reliability issues, and propose to use that very high priced energy to make another even higher priced energy.

It's absurd.
Broad statements that ignore the fact that huge amounts of energy are used to harvest, store, refine, distribute and transport in-ground petroleum and even more for tar sands petroleum. And that is before the subsidies kick in that keep it affordable and totally ignoring the health costs. The linear model simply doesn't work. We can't keep extracting resources, using them and dumping the waste into the air, water and land. That one way model is not sustainable. $hit in your bed for long enough and it will become uninhabitable.

The reason the natural systems on the planet work is that the create NO WASTE. This has allowed them to exist and evolve for millions of years. These are circular systems. We need to mimic nature for our own survival.
 
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