Coal

[ddahlgren]

Is there an appropriate forum here? i am thinking it might be a solution for me and caneasily outline the reasoning. So here goes but moderators please feel free to put this in a different forum here or lock and advise me not appropriate. So here goes..

I have to buy wood and have yet to find a wood seller that sells wood that is seasoned in SE CT..
99% of the sell basically unseasoned oak so I need a 3 year supply and the next 2 years will get better but still be a bit miserable until I have 3 year old wood.
I do not have the room on 1/3 acre in the historic district to store that much without getting busted by zoning.
Pellets can mildew and go bad and the stove requires electricity so a non player for me. So if no power I am back to running the generator to have heat. I have no control as to how the pellet supplier stores them and might start the mildew while in their hands yet the blame will certainly fall on me.

I would really like to get a long burn time but do not need a big pile of heat and coal is noted for only needing some help twice a day for a hand fired no electricity needed stove.
Coal and pellets are similar in cost in dollars per million btu but coal does not go bad and need to be seasoned and takes little room compared to wood.

I am not sure if I have thought everything out but looking for guidance.

I have tried the NEPA site but most posts are very old..

Dave

 

[Hogwildz]

If you go to coal. keep in mind, you will have a good bit of cinders to get rid of.

 

[KaptJaq]

I'm not sure I read a specific question in your post? Yes, coal does not go bad. Yes, coal is "seasoned" when you buy it. Yes, most coal stoves only need to be tended once or twice a day. Yes, coal does not take up much storage room. Coal, like pellets, varies in price due to market demand. Wood can be free if you scrounge your own or reasonably cheap if you build relationships with local landscapers. Yes, wood needs to be seasoned (oak for about 2 years, most others for one.)

If you are looking for specific answers relating to coal & coal stoves NEPACROSSROADS is the best place to ask them. Register there and post some specific questions. Start in the "hand fired coal stove" forum. If you have general questions I'll be glad to try to answer them here.

KaptJaq

 

[ewdudley]

Did you mean nepacrossroads? There's plenty of current posts, not that old posts wouldn't be relevant. I burn wood to clean hedges and whatnot, but mostly coal. As noted above, be prepared for a lot of ash.

http://nepacrossroads.com/forum-55.html

 

[corey21]

Growing up i was around coal fires and the real fine ash i what i don't like about it. The ash is like dust very easy to get all over every thing.

Then there is the clinkers...

But i still like coal,.

 

[bboulier]

When I was about 12, we had a coal furnace. My job was shoveling out the clinkers. Still remember it vividly.

 

[granpajohn]

My neighbor burned a coal insert for years. They replaced it with pellet (maybe 7 years ago).
They don't really have any complaint about the pellet insert, (which they like very well).
I note that the pellet thing broke down after only one or 2 seasons. (Never had that problem with the coal unit.) But, they repaired it fairly easily and are happy. They missed it very much when it wasn't working.

Our climate is warmer here. I think they buy 1 ton each year.
She mentioned that the pellet was cleaner than the coal. I assumed this refers to the black dust that coal brings around. She also said it was getting harder to find coal in our area. But, I notice that the place they buy their pellets also carries coal.

 

[begreen]

www.nepacrossroads.com is a pretty active forum. I just visited there and saw many current posts in the hand-fired coal stove section.

 

[Michael6268]

Coal is still a great choice. Best bang for your buck for the btu's you get. The key is to be able to get it at a reasonable price which you should be able to do if you are anywhere close to PA. The first thing a lot of people will say is "coal is dirty". It is, if you roll around in it, rub it in your hands etc. and the ash can be messy if you go outside, hold it up in the air and dump it into the wind. But if you take a little care, its no messier than wood mess on the floor around the stove, or pellet dust all over the furniture. The only one drawback I can say from my long experiece burning coal is that you have to take the ashes out more often. depending on the size of the ash pan it might be twice a day, and make sure you have somewhere to put it because it can accumulate very quickly.

 

[lumbering on]

Have you considered the compressed sawdust bio-bricks?
The were more expensive than than "seasoned" cord wood but much cheaper than a cord of kiln dried wood.
I stacked a ton of them in a smallish space in the basement.
The burn very nice and no mess.

 

[ddahlgren]

I'm not sure I read a specific question in your post? Yes, coal does not go bad. Yes, coal is "seasoned" when you buy it. Yes, most coal stoves only need to be tended once or twice a day. Yes, coal does not take up much storage room. Coal, like pellets, varies in price due to market demand. Wood can be free if you scrounge your own or reasonably cheap if you build relationships with local landscapers. Yes, wood needs to be seasoned (oak for about 2 years, most others for one.)

If you are looking for specific answers relating to coal & coal stoves NEPACROSSROADS is the best place to ask them. Register there and post some specific questions. Start in the "hand fired coal stove" forum. If you have general questions I'll be glad to try to answer them here.

KaptJaq

The question is asking for a reality check. Am I thinking nuts or does it make sense? The only place I have found to buy coal is a fairly local stove dealer Preston Trading Post that comes out to close to 350 per ton. about the same as the bio / eco bricks around here. But the bricks are not a solution as still the stove tender every 3 or so hours. The coal site you mentioned has some info in how to use a coal stove but nothing related to much beyond that for anyone outside of PA.. The fact that they can buy coal on the cheap in bulk locally is interesting but nothing to do with me.

 

[arngnick]

Coal is a great option if it is availible to you. Pound for pound you will get about 2 times the BTU's compared to pellets. If you are burning rice or buckwheat coal the ash situation will be better than larger nut coal. When I had my rice coal stove I tended to it 2 times a day to fill the hopper and empty the ashes. Firewood can be harder to handle and will in many cases need to be tended at least 2 times a day and can be very dirty and smokey depending on your setup and how careful you are. The biggest advantage to wood that I see is that in many cases it is free(except for the manual labor it takes to gather and move it) if you will be buying the wood this advantage does not apply and you may look at other options.

IMO If the only place you can get coal is $350 a ton I would say you are at their mercy and suject to price increases. Pellets are availible almost anywhere for around $200 a ton. I have always hated pellets as I thought they were a ripoff but given your situation and the many pellet buring options out there now it may be a good choice for you. Is natural gas an option? With a new efficient furnace and the fact that you do not have to deal with moving fuel NG may also be a good option.

 

[FanMan]

I have a small 1920s vintage coal stove in my cabin (in the bedroom, along with a wood stove in the living room. The combination works great for me; when I arrive on a cold Friday night the wood stove heats the living room fairly quickly and by the time I'm ready for bed the bedroom is nice and warm. Burns all night with no attention... in the morning when I get up, restart the wood stove, then go back and have my morning coffee in the bedroom. One 50# bag of coal is more than enough for a cold weekend.

I'm using the ash to fill an eroded path behind the cabin... when the rain hits it, it packs down and cements together.

I get my coal at the Killingworth (CT) True Value; I think it's $8 or $9 for a 50# bag., dunno what the ton price is.

 

[KaptJaq]

The question is asking for a reality check. Am I thinking nuts or does it make sense? The only place I have found to buy coal is a fairly local stove dealer Preston Trading Post that comes out to close to 350 per ton. about the same as the bio / eco bricks around here. But the bricks are not a solution as still the stove tender every 3 or so hours. The coal site you mentioned has some info in how to use a coal stove but nothing related to much beyond that for anyone outside of PA.. The fact that they can buy coal on the cheap in bulk locally is interesting but nothing to do with me.

I have two stoves. Upstairs is a wood stove that burns 24/7 from Thanksgiving to early April. The fuel is cheap, free scrounges only, but work.

Downstairs I have a coal stove. When the temperatures drop, lows in the teens or highs below freezing, I burn coal in it. It takes about two hours of attention to start from a cold stove. Once lit it burns by itself. It can run for the entire season without a re-light. Add coal from the top, remove ash from the bottom. I usually tend to it twice a day and get nice, even heat. No spikes, no smoke, no creosote worries. I can easily get a 36 hour or longer low burn if I am away for the weekend.

Amount of ash depends on the coal. There are good quality low ash/low sulfur coals that are a pleasure to burn. NEPACROSSROADS.COM has reviews of the different coal veins. See where your dealer gets his from.

Price depends on market conditions and distance to the mine. Last time I bought coal I paid just under $500 for 1.5 tons of nut coal delivered. I do not live anywhere near coal country. The coal site has a section based on geographic location and reviews of dealers by area.

If I need the stove to heat the entire house during a cold spell I run at its capacity, about 37.5kBTU/hour or 65 pounds of coal a day. I usually burn about 40 pounds of coal a day to generate 20kBTU/hour. My 1.5 tons will last me about 75 days but I burn the stove less than 30 days a season. I have run as low as 20 pounds a day to keep the chill out during shoulder season.

If you have a small or well insulated place you may burn less. Size your stove to your house and climate with some extra capacity for those cold spells.

As I have said before, for me wood is cheap, fun (big saws and axes),and exercise. Coal is easy.

KaptJaq

 

[Dune]

Some articles about dirty coal;

(broken link removed to http://www.epa.gov/hg/about.htm)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_fuels

 

[CT Pellet]

I have to buy wood and have yet to find a wood seller that sells wood that is seasoned in SE CT..

You wont. Retail firewood is a tremendous amount of work for $225/cord. The seller's idea of seasoned is usually logs that have been seasoning since spring, or even in some cases, a year or two. But, until they are split, they do not really begin to dry out. When you get a load of firewood, most likely the wood was in logs up until the day of your delivery, where it then got split and elevated up into a dump truck. Yes, it may have been "seasoning" for a year or so, but only if the definition of "seasoning" meand "down, dead, and lying" as opposed to "drying." For $225 per cord, the seller does not have enough money in the transaction to cut, split stack and dry...and then reload the pile onto a truck for resale upon order. Some dealers may try this exact method, and try marketing it as "true seasoned wood" but in most cases can't compete against other sellers who sell what they call "seasoned" wood for $50/cord less.

 

[ddahlgren]

Some articles about dirty coal;

http://content.sierraclub.org/coal/dirty-coal

I find it hard to believe there are any clean fuels that do not involve carbon...They come up with all problems and no solutions so why bother to even write the articles as they solve nothing. When all the members of the Sierra Club live in unheated cabins with no electricity and a hand pump for water i might take the a bit more serious though will have to eat raw meat and veggies as you need a fire to cook.. They also need to divest themselves of everything that requires heat to process so no steel or metal of any kind no communication as it requires either electricity of 'smoke signals' paper fabrics etc.. cars roads you can have a house but not nails or screws the list goes on. In my mind they have some points to bring up and at other levels eco zealots at the same time.

 

[granpajohn]

Some articles about dirty coal;

http://content.sierraclub.org/coal/dirty-coal

http://www.blaschakcoal.com/
(This is the brand sold at my local dealer.)

 

[Dune]

I find it hard to believe there are any clean fuels that do not involve carbon...They come up with all problems and no solutions so why bother to even write the articles as they solve nothing. When all the members of the Sierra Club live in unheated cabins with no electricity and a hand pump for water i might take the a bit more serious though will have to eat raw meat and veggies as you need a fire to cook.. They also need to divest themselves of everything that requires heat to process so no steel or metal of any kind no communication as it requires either electricity of 'smoke signals' paper fabrics etc.. cars roads you can have a house but not nails or screws the list goes on. In my mind they have some points to bring up and at other levels eco zealots at the same time.

Coal is just the dirtiest fuel possible. It couldn't get any worse. Nice irrelevant rant though.

 

[granpajohn]

Coal is just the dirtiest fuel possible. It couldn't get any worse. Nice irrelevant rant though.

Dune, you should not have posted that political link in an honest thread.
(And need I prove the nature of said link...it requests my signature in a petition to a government official, it requests a donation of $50 to $250, it requests my zip code to remove coal from my state. I could, of course, go on. That was just the first page.)

Be a gentleman and delete it. Respectfully requested.

 

[ddahlgren]

Coal is just the dirtiest fuel possible. It couldn't get any worse. Nice irrelevant rant though.

Just like there is more than 1 kind of wood there is more than 1 kind of coal.. The rant irrelevant to you might be a reality check to always consider the source of information. Everyone has some agenda that has to be considered when they say something. Would you consider your wood stove the same as a 50 year old smoke dragon or outdoor boiler burning mostly green wood? I think not so comparing a new coal stove to a 50 year old one is useless as is comparing bituminous coal and anthracite coal. If you think wood heat is perfectly clean I think more fantasy than reality. If careful it can be fairly clean but zero impact is just not possible. i think every one associates coal with bituminous coal that is pretty nasty stuff anthracite is very low sulfur no smoke no odor no creosote. The ash is a problem but not much more than wood ash though i have been told wood ash can be used in compost but not coal ash though also been told coal ash can be mixed with concrete and used as fill. If a subject not appropriate here no problem at the end of the day but suspect many here are familiar with many types of heating fuels so the reason I started here. I may have a set of circumstances that are outside of the ones most here have so thinking outside the box and trying to keep warm on the cheap and easy.

 

[KaptJaq]

Anthracite coal burned in a modern stove burns as clean if not cleaner than a wood stove. It is impossible to burn "green" coal and smoke up the entire neighborhood. You cannot choke an anthracite coal fire and let it smoulder & smoke for hours. If it does not have enough air it goes out quickly and smokeless. Coal sold for home use is low sulfur and clean burning.

One of the problems with coal is Bituminous coal or soft coal. Smelly & smoky. Can be chocked down and will smoulder for hours. The other problem is the coal fired power plants that buy the cheapest coal available and pump tons of pollutants into the air.

Please don't confuse a modern clean burning anthracite coal stove with their dirty cousins. I would rather have an anthracite coal stove next door than any wood stove with poor burning habits.

Hopefully this thread can get back to the OP's original concerns and not veer too far into various organization's agendas...

KaptJaq

 

[ddahlgren]

Anthracite coal burned in a modern stove burns as clean if not cleaner than a wood stove. It is impossible to burn "green" coal and smoke up the entire neighborhood. You cannot choke an anthracite coal fire and let it smoulder & smoke for hours. If it does not have enough air it goes out quickly and smokeless. Coal sold for home use is low sulfur and clean burning.

One of the problems with coal is Bituminous coal or soft coal. Smelly & smoky. Can be chocked down and will smoulder for hours. The other problem is the coal fired power plants that buy the cheapest coal available and pump tons of pollutants into the air.

Please don't confuse a modern clean burning anthracite coal stove with their dirty cousins. I would rather have an anthracite coal stove next door than any wood stove with poor burning habits.

Hopefully this thread can get back to the OP's original concerns and not veer too far into various organization's agendas...

KaptJaq

Thank you for backing me up on the anthracite being clean. What I have found after doing some searching on the net is there are dozens of places to buy coal but they do not have a website other than a few. none seem close possibly 20 miles but a few that had web pages had coal for less and hoping that with delivery would still be in the 350 range per ton as the one place in Preston I have to pick it up and do not have a truck.

What I need as much as anything is less involvement from me to keep it running. I am fine with twice a day but with my small stove and iffy wood it is an endless task to keep warm. At some point wearing a coat indoors might be a better solution than what i am currently doing.

 

[Dune]

I burned coal for twenty years> What is your question?

 

[ddahlgren]

I burned coal for twenty years> What is your question?

The question was in the first post asking for ideas and guidance for a reality check then it side tracked in political nonsense that has nothing to do with the question.