Code question, ELk?

[Hogwildz]

While I have the luxury of building the walls inside my addition, and finishing per my specs in my head.
I pose this question...........
I will be adding a freestanding in the new office. It will be on an outside wall. I will insulate wall, then build out my none combustable wall with 1" airspace etc for behind stove.
My question now is, I am adding electrical outlets in all the new rooms, what is code both electrical & fire as far as can I have out an outlet in the non combustable wall behind the stove? Is there special fire/ heat rated outlets & wiring I need? It would really be nice to have an outlet for a blower fan on the freestanding, and behind the stove on the wall would be optimal. Also, can I run a OAK throught this wall also? Concrete pad so nothing undernearth I can run through.
Please let me know your thoughts.
Thanks & my apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere, just haven't seen this subject touched.

 

[elkimmeg]

With a protected wall structure in front , there will be no issues running wires threw that wall behind the protection. What i would do is figure out the model stove and measure the cord and place the electrical out as far away as possible and low wall location. So If you are thinking of cashing in on the season clearance and looking at the Englander 13 NCL with XTB
(Extended Burn Technology) Maybe mike can give you a cord measurement. For that matter why not remove the cord and add a longer one. The plug should not be within the enclosure wall.
3' either left or right of the edge of the stove will be enough distance removed. Never directly behind the stove

Added in Edit

Harry makes a valid point. If one should replace the cord to a longer a few feet the use the same gage wire Black connector to black Whute to white and ground, Greeen wire,
to the grounding screw.

with a 6' cord it should be a non issue

 

[HarryBack]

For that matter why not remove the cord and add a longer one.

Because doing so would invalidate most stove warrantees on the market, thats why. Who is to say some yahoo wont use thermostat wire, switch the neutral, etc?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

its a 6 ft cord i believe, was gonna go measure the one on my 24-ac, then i thought about where the measuring tape is in my garage and the yard is a rice paddy right now (detached garage) i'll check one at work tomorrow and post actual length

 

[GVA]

For that matter why not remove the cord and add a longer one.

Because doing so would invalidate most stove warrantees on the market, thats why. Who is to say some yahoo wont use thermostat wire, switch the neutral, etc?

Agreed on that especially since most companies are switching to european (ahhhem.... international) color codes..... Most people don't know what the blue and brown are. :-S

 

[Hogwildz]

its a 6 ft cord i believe, was gonna go measure the one on my 24-ac, then i thought about where the measuring tape is in my garage and the yard is a rice paddy right now (detached garage) i'll check one at work tomorrow and post actual length

LOL, grab me some pork fried rice on the way to your garage.

Mike, I am looking at your model that B.B. has. The addition is 750sf 2 fairly large rooms, then an entranceway & walk through room connecting all.
Do you think the 30 will be too much stove? 10' ceilings, ceiling fans in the two big rooms. I would rather have too much stove, then too little. I have 3 6foot slider I can crack in the back bedroom, and 1 slider and anentrance door in the office to crack open if the heat gets too much. I seen the 13 and I think the 24? in the local home peehole, and they have such a small firebox. Ya think I can get away with the 3.5 firebox and not turn the addition into an overwhelming suana?
Like I said, I'd rather crack a few sliders and let some heat out, than have to be filling a smaller model every hour or so. The addition wil have two doorways to main house, which will mainly be open. Might be able to also circulate the extra heat to the main part of house.
If I can get away with 3 foot to either side with the cord, I should be ok, might only have 1-1/2' to 2'. What are the side clearances both with & without the side shields?
Any problem taking the outside air through the protection wall behind stove?

 

[BrotherBart]

If the outlet is too close then ya have to deal with what to do with all of that coiled up cord behind the stove getting hot. The optimum for a blower cord is running straight out from the stove perpendicular to the stove.

And I am sitting here trying to imagine a Summit and a 30-NC both up to efficient burn temperature in the same house. Forget a blower on the 30 Bubba. Ya ain't gonna need one. The rear heat shield that comes on it is a convection panel. I am betting it is gonna warm you up just fine. With both of the stoves running you need to be thinking about fireproof shingles. Not walls.

 

[Hogwildz]

If the outlet is too close then ya have to deal with what to do with all of that coiled up cord behind the stove getting hot. The optimum for a blower cord is running straight out from the stove perpendicular to the stove.

And I am sitting here trying to imagine a Summit and a 30-NC both up to efficient burn temperature in the same house. Forget a blower on the 30 Bubba. Ya ain't gonna need one. The rear heat shield that comes on it is a convection panel. I am betting it is gonna warm you up just fine. With both of the stoves running you need to be thinking about fireproof shingles. Not walls.

I'm mister heat miser, I'm mister hot.
Hmmm, and the house is well insualted also. I am amazed that the Summit is heating the ENTIRE main house at a steady 73 degrees constant.
I had a log in at a time today, and 73 degrees al day.

I was worried at first. I was getting 800-850+ temps on it with a full load. No cherry spots though. The s.s. baffle did expand & contract somewhat. I could see it in the back where it rests raising up a tad, then loweing back down as the insert came down in temp. Id this ok? Once in a while it clunks like it cooled and dropped back down against the bracket. Like I said nothing got cherry, and the stove seemed to be running optimal at 800. Could this be true? That was fully shut down with blower full force.
Wood was seasoned but not overly dry like kiln dried.
I just know Im gonna get that 30-NC, am I a fool for going large? Am am I just crazy?

 

[elkimmeg]

why get a stove for 3000 sq ft when one at 1500 will do. The thing you have to factor is a a larger stove woking at 30% capacity is not as good as one working at 65-70%

The way that summit works, with box fans located stragically, you may not use the second stove all that much. No sense of drastic over kill I can heat 8+ hours with a 2.2 cu ft fire box
By heat, I'm talking about 450 degrees, with plenty of coals left over, for imediate re-fire with the morning load up. In some cases bigger is not better, plus you wallet will thank me for this advice

 

[Hogwildz]

why get a stove for 3000 sq ft when one at 1500 will do. The thing you have to factor is a a larger stove woking at 30% capacity is not as good as one working at 65-70%

The way that summit works, with box fans located stragically, you may not use the second stove all that much. No sense of drastic over kill I can heat 8+ hours with a 2.2 cu ft fire box
By heat, I'm talking about 450 degrees, with plenty of coals left over, for imediate re-fire with the morning load up. In some cases bigger is not better, plus you wallet will thank me for this advice

I have to agree with your thinking. I'll hold off on a stove till the breezeway is done. I'll have the oil for backup. And see what kind of circulation I can get for the Summits heat. If it does all, then so be it. If not, I will get the mid sized. That 13 model has a fiebox the size of an small igloo lunch box it seems. Don't want to have to use smaller length wood. Good advice, and I'm going to take it for now Elk. Good thing one of us is reasonable.

 

[Gooserider]

With a protected wall structure in front , there will be no issues running wires threw that wall behind the protection. What i would do is figure out the model stove and measure the cord and place the electrical out as far away as possible and low wall location. So If you are thinking of cashing in on the season clearance and looking at the Englander 13 NCL with XTB
(Extended Burn Technology) Maybe mike can give you a cord measurement. For that matter why not remove the cord and add a longer one. The plug should not be within the enclosure wall.
3' either left or right of the edge of the stove will be enough distance removed. Never directly behind the stove

Added in Edit

Harry makes a valid point. If one should replace the cord to a longer a few feet the use the same gage wire Black connector to black Whute to white and ground, Greeen wire,
to the grounding screw.

with a 6' cord it should be a non issue

As a major point Elk, (I'm surprised you missed it...) If replacing the cord, you need to match the RATING TYPE of the cord as well as matching or increasing the wire guage... There is a long list of different rating codes for electrical cords, some have to do with mechanical stuff like abrasion and chemical resistance, or indoor/outdoor application, but some also deal with TEMPERATURE RATING... I forget the breakdown of what all the codes stand for, but ANY UL accepted cord should be clearly marked along it's length, either copy the entire list of what's printed / embossed on the cord and take it with you to an electrical supply place, or take the cord itself, and make sure you match or exceed the rating of the cord with the replacement.

The other thing to consider in putting in outlets is that there are NEC specs on outlet spacing. I'm not sure how they would interact with the stove, but I suspect you might need to have an outlet fairly close to the stove on each side of it. I'm not sure what current code requires as a minimum, and I don't have my book handy, but my recollection is that it is something like at least one duplex outlet per 8' of continuous wall, one outlet per wall section (between doors) over 2' wide, etc.

Being one of those folks that has lots of things that use electricity, I always thought of those code requirements as MINIMUM and tended to add more outlets than required - it's tough to have to many....

Also I am a firm believer in using 12g wire - code may say that 14g is OK, but IMNSHO, the extra ampacity and safety margin of 12g more than justifies the minimal added cost. (By choice, I even use 12g extension cords for any power tools that I can...)

Gooserider

 

[Hogwildz]

With a protected wall structure in front , there will be no issues running wires threw that wall behind the protection. What i would do is figure out the model stove and measure the cord and place the electrical out as far away as possible and low wall location. So If you are thinking of cashing in on the season clearance and looking at the Englander 13 NCL with XTB
(Extended Burn Technology) Maybe mike can give you a cord measurement. For that matter why not remove the cord and add a longer one. The plug should not be within the enclosure wall.
3' either left or right of the edge of the stove will be enough distance removed. Never directly behind the stove

Added in Edit

Harry makes a valid point. If one should replace the cord to a longer a few feet the use the same gage wire Black connector to black Whute to white and ground, Greeen wire,
to the grounding screw.

with a 6' cord it should be a non issue

As a major point Elk, (I'm surprised you missed it...) If replacing the cord, you need to match the RATING TYPE of the cord as well as matching or increasing the wire guage... There is a long list of different rating codes for electrical cords, some have to do with mechanical stuff like abrasion and chemical resistance, or indoor/outdoor application, but some also deal with TEMPERATURE RATING... I forget the breakdown of what all the codes stand for, but ANY UL accepted cord should be clearly marked along it's length, either copy the entire list of what's printed / embossed on the cord and take it with you to an electrical supply place, or take the cord itself, and make sure you match or exceed the rating of the cord with the replacement.

The other thing to consider in putting in outlets is that there are NEC specs on outlet spacing. I'm not sure how they would interact with the stove, but I suspect you might need to have an outlet fairly close to the stove on each side of it. I'm not sure what current code requires as a minimum, and I don't have my book handy, but my recollection is that it is something like at least one duplex outlet per 8' of continuous wall, one outlet per wall section (between doors) over 2' wide, etc.

Being one of those folks that has lots of things that use electricity, I always thought of those code requirements as MINIMUM and tended to add more outlets than required - it's tough to have to many....

Also I am a firm believer in using 12g wire - code may say that 14g is OK, but IMNSHO, the extra ampacity and safety margin of 12g more than justifies the minimal added cost. (By choice, I even use 12g extension cords for any power tools that I can...)

Gooserider

I used 12 gauge for all outlets and 14 gauge for all lighting circuits. Recommended is every 6' for outlets and yes every wall section 2' or wider also needs an outlet. I think code was around 8' yes, maybe a lil more. I have more than enough outlets trust me LOL. 8 in the bedroom alone. I don't have any on the block wall side. Or on the concrete garage wall side. I may add more in on the wall on the garage side when I put cultured stone over the concrete.

 

[Gooserider]

The 12/14 split the way you describe it makes sense, I just figure it's easier to keep track of stuff if I just have one size wire to worry about. Last time I looked the price difference between 12/2wg and 14/2wg was only a few bucks, and I decided the extra cost was worth it.

I did the same thing when networking the house - The telco stuff only requires four conductor cat3 wire and RJ-11 jacks, but I put the same cat5e and RJ-45 jacks in for the phone as I did for the network. The cost difference was nominal, and the hassle reduction was immense. (I didn't think it made sense to spend the 50% more for cat6 wiring)

Gooserider

 

[Hogwildz]

The 12/14 split the way you describe it makes sense, I just figure it's easier to keep track of stuff if I just have one size wire to worry about. Last time I looked the price difference between 12/2wg and 14/2wg was only a few bucks, and I decided the extra cost was worth it.

I did the same thing when networking the house - The telco stuff only requires four conductor cat3 wire and RJ-11 jacks, but I put the same cat5e and RJ-45 jacks in for the phone as I did for the network. The cost difference was nominal, and the hassle reduction was immense. (I didn't think it made sense to spend the 50% more for cat6 wiring)

Gooserider

Here it was quite a dif between the 14 & 12 gauge. By almost double. Plus for me easier to keep track of all the wiring running through several same areas to the sub panel. And I did mark each wires casing with the circuit it runs to.

I also bought the cat5 wire, haven't run the telecom wiring yet but did read its not to be ran parallel to the 12 or 14 gauge within 6 feet. Although it also states you may run vertically to the other electrical lines. which is almost inpossible not to do anywyas. I am also going to need to get the special cat 6 to reroute the existing saltellite internet wiring from existing temp office in main part of house to the new office in addition., shouldn't be a problem as it is around or under 50', and is said to be good to 100'. So much to do and no time to do it

 

[Jags]

Goose, it is pretty typical for 12 ga. on the outlets and 14 ga for lighting. Some of the logic is that 15 amp (14ga wire) will run a hell of alot of lights, as well as the added flexibility of 14 ga. when attaching to lighter ga. wire that you may find in ceiling fans and stuff. Also, with the 12 ga. outlets (assuming that you do not exceed the length limits) you can run 20 amp breakers if need be.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Kind of off-topic, but why is it that many switches and outlets won't let you push 12-gauge wire into the contact retainer on the back of the device?

Are they not designed for the heavier gauge wire?

 

[Jags]

Kind of off-topic, but why is it that many switches and outlets won't let you push 12-gauge wire into the contact retainer on the back of the device?

Are they not designed for the heavier gauge wire?

That is because many of the switches and outlets that can be bought are only rated for 15 amps (typically 14 ga wire).

 

[Hogwildz]

Goose, it is pretty typical for 12 ga. on the outlets and 14 ga for lighting. Some of the logic is that 15 amp (14ga wire) will run a hell of alot of lights, as well as the added flexibility of 14 ga. when attaching to lighter ga. wire that you may find in ceiling fans and stuff. Also, with the 12 ga. outlets (assuming that you do not exceed the length limits) you can run 20 amp breakers if need be.

Exactly how my set up is. even went with the 20 amp outlets. I am just that way. Makes me feel better.

 

[Hogwildz]

Kind of off-topic, but why is it that many switches and outlets won't let you push 12-gauge wire into the contact retainer on the back of the device?

Are they not designed for the heavier gauge wire?

That is because many of the switches and outlets that can be bought are only rated for 15 amps (typically 14 ga wire).

Very true. But also note, as I have seen even in my old home, that the 12 gauge can be run to a 15 amp outlet. Which has also been pointed out to me they are rated for 15 amp, but also ok for 20 amp circuits. If I understood correctly what I was told.
I found a couple 30 amp breakers in slots where 15 & 20 amp circuits were run in this house when I moved in. All I can say is I changed that sh-t real quick. And the previous owner is an f'in a--hole. When I redid my old house, everything was done as if MY family was living there. I may be an arsehole at times, but I have a conscience. I didn't install millionaire stuff, but didn't use the oops paints & cheapest junk I could find. Funny, even though I was selling it, I wanted things to be done right & correctly. I could have saved some cash, but I take alot of pride in any projects I do. Not sure if that stupid and or stubborn, but is what it is.

 

[elkimmeg]

That is correct ,common 15 amp plugs and switches can be use in a 20 amp 12 wire situation .They are marked 15 amps but tested to 20 amps

 

[joshuaviktor]

Hey, nothing beats what I found.

Get this sh&t.

1. Went to check electrical systems in basement. Passed house inspector, realized the former owners had redone kitchen, including electrical, without permitting the electrical. Crud. Figure I'll check it out, change anything I don't like (dangerous, outdated, etc.) then get a permit to cover everything. Found a BX (Armor cable) line running in basement to a little box with 2 glass fuses in it. Had to study the damn thing to figure out what it was doing. They were using the box to split the single pair of wires to 2 BX cables. Ah-ha! stupid, but at least it makes sense. My dad wanders over, starts cursing with wide eyes. "They fused the neutral!" I look again. Oh, yeah. Blow a fuse, figure it out by electrocuting someone. Great fuse tester. Ran conduit, subpanel, 4 eight gauge copper conductors, and cut that sucker off ASAP.

2. Went to look at the dining room chandelier. Could see the wires for the light fixture cut at the fixture. Figure it is like the parlor chandelier. Used a chain with wire to get to an outlet. (OLD house) Nope, pulled the escutcheon, and there are wires in the ceiling. Ok, where's the switch? Hallway light switch wires read contiguous. Ok, wired it up, huh? When switch is off, hallway light off, dining room light on. When switch is on, hallway light on, dining room light off. Ok, pull both fixtures and switch. Replace switch. Nope. Meter ALL wires, really screwy. There was a cluster of bonded neutrals in the hallway light fixture. Ouch. Wait! They are hot? Cut them all (with breaker off), and meter them. Yup, they stuck a hot in there. Rewired all, now the switch works fine. Off, both off. On, both on.

Have installed 4 subpanels to date. As I touch wires, they get replaced. Unidentifiables get cut from the breaker, lugged, taped, labeled, and pushed into the walls. Argh.

Thought you'd get a kick out of it.

Joshua

 

[Hogwildz]

Hey, nothing beats what I found.

Get this sh&t.

1. Went to check electrical systems in basement. Passed house inspector, realized the former owners had redone kitchen, including electrical, without permitting the electrical. Crud. Figure I'll check it out, change anything I don't like (dangerous, outdated, etc.) then get a permit to cover everything. Found a BX (Armor cable) line running in basement to a little box with 2 glass fuses in it. Had to study the damn thing to figure out what it was doing. They were using the box to split the single pair of wires to 2 BX cables. Ah-ha! stupid, but at least it makes sense. My dad wanders over, starts cursing with wide eyes. "They fused the neutral!" I look again. Oh, yeah. Blow a fuse, figure it out by electrocuting someone. Great fuse tester. Ran conduit, subpanel, 4 eight gauge copper conductors, and cut that sucker off ASAP.

2. Went to look at the dining room chandelier. Could see the wires for the light fixture cut at the fixture. Figure it is like the parlor chandelier. Used a chain with wire to get to an outlet. (OLD house) Nope, pulled the escutcheon, and there are wires in the ceiling. Ok, where's the switch? Hallway light switch wires read contiguous. Ok, wired it up, huh? When switch is off, hallway light off, dining room light on. When switch is on, hallway light on, dining room light off. Ok, pull both fixtures and switch. Replace switch. Nope. Meter ALL wires, really screwy. There was a cluster of bonded neutrals in the hallway light fixture. Ouch. Wait! They are hot? Cut them all (with breaker off), and meter them. Yup, they stuck a hot in there. Rewired all, now the switch works fine. Off, both off. On, both on.

Have installed 4 subpanels to date. As I touch wires, they get replaced. Unidentifiables get cut from the breaker, lugged, taped, labeled, and pushed into the walls. Argh.

Thought you'd get a kick out of it.

Joshua

I am going through the same bs here. Previous owner used push in outlets, meaning the wires push in th back. Well the wires started coming out, causing breakers to trip etc. I went to replace with clamp type 20 amp outlets, only 1-1/2" of wire coming into each box. I can't even get my hands in the box to connect the damn wires. Hade to piggytail extentions onto the existing wires. Not ready to tear drywall down yet. Tore drywall down in basement that got wet during the massive flood last summer. Behind low and behold I find wires spliced together no junction box, just taped together & stuffed behind the drywall. None of the basement wiring is run through floor joists, just stples to the bottoms etc etc etc. F'in ahole previous owner. Oh well when addition is done, willl start redoing all in main house.
Also found a wire to an outside light which was added on late, not through the wall cavity, but between the foam wall insulation board and the exterior siding.
This makes me both I'll, and scared as to what else is hidden behind the rest of the walls. Home inspector should have picked alot of this up. I went around checking interior outlets with a tester, and many, many ungrounded outlets etc. I'd like to see this guy just one more time. Thats all that would be needed.

 

[GVA]

Hey, nothing beats what I found.

Get this sh&t.

1. Went to check electrical systems in basement. Passed house inspector, realized the former owners had redone kitchen, including electrical, without permitting the electrical. Crud. Figure I'll check it out, change anything I don't like (dangerous, outdated, etc.) then get a permit to cover everything. Found a BX (Armor cable) line running in basement to a little box with 2 glass fuses in it. Had to study the damn thing to figure out what it was doing. They were using the box to split the single pair of wires to 2 BX cables. Ah-ha! stupid, but at least it makes sense. My dad wanders over, starts cursing with wide eyes. "They fused the neutral!" I look again. Oh, yeah. Blow a fuse, figure it out by electrocuting someone. Great fuse tester. Ran conduit, subpanel, 4 eight gauge copper conductors, and cut that sucker off ASAP.

2. Went to look at the dining room chandelier. Could see the wires for the light fixture cut at the fixture. Figure it is like the parlor chandelier. Used a chain with wire to get to an outlet. (OLD house) Nope, pulled the escutcheon, and there are wires in the ceiling. Ok, where's the switch? Hallway light switch wires read contiguous. Ok, wired it up, huh? When switch is off, hallway light off, dining room light on. When switch is on, hallway light on, dining room light off. Ok, pull both fixtures and switch. Replace switch. Nope. Meter ALL wires, really screwy. There was a cluster of bonded neutrals in the hallway light fixture. Ouch. Wait! They are hot? Cut them all (with breaker off), and meter them. Yup, they stuck a hot in there. Rewired all, now the switch works fine. Off, both off. On, both on.

Have installed 4 subpanels to date. As I touch wires, they get replaced. Unidentifiables get cut from the breaker, lugged, taped, labeled, and pushed into the walls. Argh.

Thought you'd get a kick out of it.

Joshua

I am going through the same bs here. Previous owner used push in outlets, meaning the wires push in th back. Well the wires started coming out, causing breakers to trip etc. I went to replace with clamp type 20 amp outlets, only 1-1/2" of wire coming into each box. I can't even get my hands in the box to connect the damn wires. Hade to piggytail extentions onto the existing wires. Not ready to tear drywall down yet. Tore drywall down in basement that got wet during the massive flood last summer. Behind low and behold I find wires spliced together no junction box, just taped together & stuffed behind the drywall. None of the basement wiring is run through floor joists, just stples to the bottoms etc etc etc. F'in ahole previous owner. Oh well when addition is done, willl start redoing all in main house.
Also found a wire to an outside light which was added on late, not through the wall cavity, but between the foam wall insulation board and the exterior siding.
This makes me both I'll, and scared as to what else is hidden behind the rest of the walls. Home inspector should have picked alot of this up. I went around checking interior outlets with a tester, and many, many ungrounded outlets etc. I'd like to see this guy just one more time. Thats all that would be needed.

Sorry hogwildz, most cases when you have ungrounded outlets it means you have knob and tube there in the house that stuff sucks get rid of it.

Joshua, Believe it or not it was somewhat common to fuse the neutrals as well as the hot wires when they used knob and tube wiring.... however when they did this the hots were fused at the panel the neutrals were usually buried in the walls where they could never be found.

Another reason knob & tube sucks.......

 

[Hogwildz]

Hey, nothing beats what I found.

Get this sh&t.

1. Went to check electrical systems in basement. Passed house inspector, realized the former owners had redone kitchen, including electrical, without permitting the electrical. Crud. Figure I'll check it out, change anything I don't like (dangerous, outdated, etc.) then get a permit to cover everything. Found a BX (Armor cable) line running in basement to a little box with 2 glass fuses in it. Had to study the damn thing to figure out what it was doing. They were using the box to split the single pair of wires to 2 BX cables. Ah-ha! stupid, but at least it makes sense. My dad wanders over, starts cursing with wide eyes. "They fused the neutral!" I look again. Oh, yeah. Blow a fuse, figure it out by electrocuting someone. Great fuse tester. Ran conduit, subpanel, 4 eight gauge copper conductors, and cut that sucker off ASAP.

2. Went to look at the dining room chandelier. Could see the wires for the light fixture cut at the fixture. Figure it is like the parlor chandelier. Used a chain with wire to get to an outlet. (OLD house) Nope, pulled the escutcheon, and there are wires in the ceiling. Ok, where's the switch? Hallway light switch wires read contiguous. Ok, wired it up, huh? When switch is off, hallway light off, dining room light on. When switch is on, hallway light on, dining room light off. Ok, pull both fixtures and switch. Replace switch. Nope. Meter ALL wires, really screwy. There was a cluster of bonded neutrals in the hallway light fixture. Ouch. Wait! They are hot? Cut them all (with breaker off), and meter them. Yup, they stuck a hot in there. Rewired all, now the switch works fine. Off, both off. On, both on.

Have installed 4 subpanels to date. As I touch wires, they get replaced. Unidentifiables get cut from the breaker, lugged, taped, labeled, and pushed into the walls. Argh.

Thought you'd get a kick out of it.

Joshua

I am going through the same bs here. Previous owner used push in outlets, meaning the wires push in th back. Well the wires started coming out, causing breakers to trip etc. I went to replace with clamp type 20 amp outlets, only 1-1/2" of wire coming into each box. I can't even get my hands in the box to connect the damn wires. Hade to piggytail extentions onto the existing wires. Not ready to tear drywall down yet. Tore drywall down in basement that got wet during the massive flood last summer. Behind low and behold I find wires spliced together no junction box, just taped together & stuffed behind the drywall. None of the basement wiring is run through floor joists, just stples to the bottoms etc etc etc. F'in ahole previous owner. Oh well when addition is done, willl start redoing all in main house.
Also found a wire to an outside light which was added on late, not through the wall cavity, but between the foam wall insulation board and the exterior siding.
This makes me both I'll, and scared as to what else is hidden behind the rest of the walls. Home inspector should have picked alot of this up. I went around checking interior outlets with a tester, and many, many ungrounded outlets etc. I'd like to see this guy just one more time. Thats all that would be needed.

Sorry hogwildz, most cases when you have ungrounded outlets it means you have knob and tube there in the house that stuff sucks get rid of it.

Joshua, Believe it or not it was somewhat common to fuse the neutrals as well as the hot wires when they used knob and tube wiring.... however when they did this the hots were fused at the panel the neutrals were usually buried in the walls where they could never be found.

Another reason knob & tube sucks.......

No knob & tube here. The guy just pigtailed the wires together, but did not run one to the outlet itself. I got most of those corrected.
This place was built in 93, so def no know & tube here. Fairly tight modern home. Just the usual bs to have to be corrected.
One thing at a time, and some day maybe I'll be able to get some free time for other things. I just make a challenge out of it for myself. To better & improve, that motivates me, and in the end I feel safer for my family.

 

[GVA]

Hey, nothing beats what I found.

Get this sh&t.

1. Went to check electrical systems in basement. Passed house inspector, realized the former owners had redone kitchen, including electrical, without permitting the electrical. Crud. Figure I'll check it out, change anything I don't like (dangerous, outdated, etc.) then get a permit to cover everything. Found a BX (Armor cable) line running in basement to a little box with 2 glass fuses in it. Had to study the damn thing to figure out what it was doing. They were using the box to split the single pair of wires to 2 BX cables. Ah-ha! stupid, but at least it makes sense. My dad wanders over, starts cursing with wide eyes. "They fused the neutral!" I look again. Oh, yeah. Blow a fuse, figure it out by electrocuting someone. Great fuse tester. Ran conduit, subpanel, 4 eight gauge copper conductors, and cut that sucker off ASAP.

2. Went to look at the dining room chandelier. Could see the wires for the light fixture cut at the fixture. Figure it is like the parlor chandelier. Used a chain with wire to get to an outlet. (OLD house) Nope, pulled the escutcheon, and there are wires in the ceiling. Ok, where's the switch? Hallway light switch wires read contiguous. Ok, wired it up, huh? When switch is off, hallway light off, dining room light on. When switch is on, hallway light on, dining room light off. Ok, pull both fixtures and switch. Replace switch. Nope. Meter ALL wires, really screwy. There was a cluster of bonded neutrals in the hallway light fixture. Ouch. Wait! They are hot? Cut them all (with breaker off), and meter them. Yup, they stuck a hot in there. Rewired all, now the switch works fine. Off, both off. On, both on.

Have installed 4 subpanels to date. As I touch wires, they get replaced. Unidentifiables get cut from the breaker, lugged, taped, labeled, and pushed into the walls. Argh.

Thought you'd get a kick out of it.

Joshua

I am going through the same bs here. Previous owner used push in outlets, meaning the wires push in th back. Well the wires started coming out, causing breakers to trip etc. I went to replace with clamp type 20 amp outlets, only 1-1/2" of wire coming into each box. I can't even get my hands in the box to connect the damn wires. Hade to piggytail extentions onto the existing wires. Not ready to tear drywall down yet. Tore drywall down in basement that got wet during the massive flood last summer. Behind low and behold I find wires spliced together no junction box, just taped together & stuffed behind the drywall. None of the basement wiring is run through floor joists, just stples to the bottoms etc etc etc. F'in ahole previous owner. Oh well when addition is done, willl start redoing all in main house.
Also found a wire to an outside light which was added on late, not through the wall cavity, but between the foam wall insulation board and the exterior siding.
This makes me both I'll, and scared as to what else is hidden behind the rest of the walls. Home inspector should have picked alot of this up. I went around checking interior outlets with a tester, and many, many ungrounded outlets etc. I'd like to see this guy just one more time. Thats all that would be needed.

Sorry hogwildz, most cases when you have ungrounded outlets it means you have knob and tube there in the house that stuff sucks get rid of it.

Joshua, Believe it or not it was somewhat common to fuse the neutrals as well as the hot wires when they used knob and tube wiring.... however when they did this the hots were fused at the panel the neutrals were usually buried in the walls where they could never be found.

Another reason knob & tube sucks.......

No knob & tube here. The guy just pigtailed the wires together, but did not run one to the outlet itself. I got most of those corrected.
This place was built in 93, so def no know & tube here. Fairly tight modern home. Just the usual bs to have to be corrected.
One thing at a time, and some day maybe I'll be able to get some free time for other things. I just make a challenge out of it for myself. To better & improve, that motivates me, and in the end I feel safer for my family.

Well I would hunt that electrician down and give him a beating.
No master electrician worth his salt uses the backwire outlets. (unless they are the prograde where the screws on the side actually clamp against the wire which cuts down on the time to loop the wire around the terminal screw)
They also don't bury splices in the walls. (even if it was spliced in a box and then drywalled over this is illegal too)
They also leave the required 6" of wire inside the outlet box.
And they always connect the ground wires.....
Forget the home inspector find the guy that wired the house................................. ;-)

Damn I'm gonna have to bring my code book home from work you guys are asking alot this week about NEC.......