Comments to the New Proposed EPA Regulations

[Huntindog1]

Has anyone went and looked at this site where people can make comments about the Proposed EPA Regulations.

Some interesting comments.

http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketBrowser;rpp=25;po=0;D=EPA-HQ-OAR-2009-0734

Hope the link works.

 

[johnpma]

The only comment I have is if the government is involved you know the end user is going to get it in the butt in the end.........

My opinion is they have much larger problems to worry about at this time.........

 

[Ashful]

I clicked on the link but only got a summary paragraph, no technical details on the new standards. Did you see any details, and if so, can you post?

I spoke with Jotul tech about the (then proposed) new standards last year. They said it might push them to re-introduce their catalytic technology, since their non-cats would not meet the proposed requirements. If that is the case, I think it's just about the best thing that could happen to those of us who like pretty cast iron stoves.

 

[Huntindog1]

I clicked on the link but only got a summary paragraph, no technical details on the new standards. Did you see any details, and if so, can you post?

I spoke with Jotul tech about the (then proposed) new standards last year. They said it might push them to re-introduce their catalytic technology, since their non-cats would not meet the proposed requirements. If that is the case, I think it's just about the best thing that could happen to those of us who like pretty cast iron stoves.

Try this link:

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=EPA-HQ-OAR-2009-0734-0001

 

[Ashful]

Here's to what Jotul tech support was referring:

Models equipped with a catalytic combustor cannot emit more than a weighted average of 4.1 g of PM per hour. Models that are not equipped with a catalytic combustor cannot emit more than a weighted average of 7.5 g of PM per hour. The lower initial emission limit for the catalytic combustor-equipped models incorporates an expected deterioration rate for the catalysts such that after 5 years the emissions from those models were expected to be similar to the emissions from noncatalytic models.

Unfortunate (IMO) that they permit the 7.5g allowance at all. Apparently one of the prior proposals fixed the emissions at 4.1g, at the factory door, which would have forced Jotul back into the cat stove market.

 

[begreen]

Jotul appears to be one of the strongest opposers to a cat solution. It's as if your stove never existed. They only seem to remember their experience with the smaller cat stove attempts.

 

[Huntindog1]

Seems to be alot of comments on the EPA Gov site of people who oppose wood burning and wants to ban wood burning.
But I also think alot of the posts are coming from the same person. But I can prove it.

 

[BCC_Burner]

Seems to be alot of comments on the EPA Gov site of people who oppose wood burning and wants to ban wood burning.
But I also think alot of the posts are coming from the same person. But I can prove it.

As long as there are trees, chainsaws and mauls, they won't be able to ban wood burning.

 

[begreen]

Local and state jurisdictions can set different rules than national standards.

 

[Clarkbug]

Local and state jurisdictions can set different rules than national standards.

I had thought they could only be more stringent, not less if it was a national standard... but that's just a thought, I have nothing to back it up one way or another.

 

[begreen]

My understanding it that it is more of a standard that states can choose or not choose to adopt. However, from a stove manufacturer's POV it would be cumbersome if not unaffordable to make stoves to multiple standards. So, like when WA state set the bar with a stiff standard, new stoves are built to this requirement. It's been a while since I read the whole doc, but this was my understanding at the time. The current push is being driven by many more states and organizations than the 1988 suit, so there is a strong impetus for the EPA to get new regs in place.

 

[Ashful]

Jotul appears to be one of the strongest opposers to a cat solution. It's as if your stove never existed. They only seem to remember their experience with the smaller cat stove attempts.

I get the impression from the tech with whom I speak, that he's very lonely at Jotul, as a fan of their cat stoves. I also get the impression that very few of their current employees were there when they were producing the F12, so the only cat stoves with which they're familiar are the ones still generating complaints today.

 

[begreen]

IIRC the 12 had a lot less problems than the early 8 and 3 cats. The series 8 seems to have been the better stove but we don't see a lot of them. When I mentioned to the Jotul rep at HPBA that the 12 was an excellent cat stove he looked at me like I was from Mars and had no idea what I was talking about. He was young and eager and had already bought the company line.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

My understanding it that it is more of a standard that states can choose or not choose to adopt. However, from a stove manufacturer's POV it would be cumbersome if not unaffordable to make stoves to multiple standards. So, like when WA state set the bar with a stiff standard, new stoves are built to this requirement. It's been a while since I read the whole doc, but this was my understanding at the time. The current push is being driven by many more states and organizations than the 1988 suit, so there is a strong impetus for the EPA to get new regs in place.

which is why we build our EPA certified stoves to meet the Washington state standard. if we can sell there we can sell anywhere. from the way I understand it , a state can impose tougher standards than the fed standards however they cannot set a lesser standard than the fed (current phase 2)
which is why Washington state and some smaller (ie county) jurisdictions have tougher than phase 2 standards.

what would signal a major turn against wood burning would be if states or counties were to set standards that simply could not be met (there have been attempts to do this in various places over the last several years) more so recently as the global warming weenies (those who think wood burning contributes to GW, which isn't the case with woodburning being a carbon neutral practice) but to avoid regressing if this were to become a movement then woodburning could be in trouble.