Concerned about install (pics attached)

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KELL45

New Member
Sep 12, 2022
12
England
Hi all.. please accept my apologies I am brand new to this and seeking advice on the worrying temp of wall above new stove install. The stove is a 5kw Portway Arundel XL with a focus cast ceramic beam above. Wall recessed tv located above that. The fire burns beautifully and heats the room however the beam and wall above to the tv is incredibly hot to touch my understanding is that this should not be the case? I have attached an image

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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,535
South Puget Sound, WA
It's not surprising that the ceramic mantel and masonry surrounding the stove would get hot. The radiant heat is trapped in the small alcove. A more convective stove with a blower could mitigate this issue somewhat.
 

KELL45

New Member
Sep 12, 2022
12
England
Just to add to this post I have found some issues again which I don’t know are flaws or not? There is a gap around top of slate panelling? What appears to be cement crumbling off? And a lip on mantle which appears to be trapping heat? I have attached photos is this normal? Thanks

E6964C2B-7271-4AC2-9651-C84DC4F32D27.jpeg A31A86E9-4A7A-45A1-8E66-CFD58CC8A35E.jpeg 5E5C770A-A1B5-47EF-BDEA-93BB42277141.jpeg AFCB6BD4-0333-4065-A8C0-C2169DC274D8.jpeg
 

KELL45

New Member
Sep 12, 2022
12
England
Afternoon all, Arundel XL stove installed 5 weeks ago only used 5 times and having lots of problems. Tv and wall above becoming boiling hot so now won’t use stove at all. Gaps around top of slate alcove? Gap around flue pipe and cement? crumbling off? I have 2 young children and overall I’m concerned enough not to use the burner at all. Does anyone have any thoughts on this or advice? Thanks

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GrumpyDad

Minister of Fire
Feb 23, 2022
573
Champion, PA
Afternoon all, Arundel XL stove installed 5 weeks ago only used 5 times and having lots of problems. Tv and wall above becoming boiling hot so now won’t use stove at all. Gaps around top of slate alcove? Gap around flue pipe and cement? crumbling off? I have 2 young children and overall I’m concerned enough not to use the burner at all. Does anyone have any thoughts on this or advice? Thanks

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The experts will be here with you in a moment, in the meantime I would suggest taking more pictures to show more of your setup as it is unclear as to what you have going on here. It looks like this was installed in some sort of alcove, and the pipe is going through cement board up into? The pipe looks very close to cement board, which may be listed as non combustible Im not sure. If that is drywall then that is a BIG no no to be that close to the drywall and you would be wise not to fire this stove until the person who installs this installs the proper pass through. Have you talked to your stove installer? Are they certified? I would never go with anyone that isnt a licensed and insured stove designer, installer. I ended up having to do my own after much research because all the local installers I found were NOT certified.
 

KELL45

New Member
Sep 12, 2022
12
England
Thank you for replying. I have attached more images. The installer is certified. Also my tv and wall above is incredibly hot therefore I have stopped using stove altogether. I feel this may be due to a “lip” on the ceramic mantle capturing the heat?

8A9EEB4A-43B3-45A8-B75D-605592AEA6F7.jpeg
 

GrumpyDad

Minister of Fire
Feb 23, 2022
573
Champion, PA
Thank you for replying. I have attached more images. The installer is certified. Also my tv and wall above is incredibly hot therefore I have stopped using stove altogether. I feel this may be due to a “lip” on the ceramic mantle capturing the heat?

View attachment 299017
Those are some AWESOME wide plank floors. Is that real wood?
I think there are two things to consider here. 1. your immediate concern of overheating the surrounding area and 2. (this one is mine) is that stove pipe done correctly. I feel like there should be something that it passes into that opening, like a thimble or support box, and then chimney pipe should run from there out through the roof. As I understand it that is. But Im NOT an expert just a DIYer.

As far as overheating there are threads on here that will tell you about that. I too have concerns when I get my stove up to modest temps that the right wall of my building gets pretty darn hot. But after reading in here, I realized that I had to be (I believe) 120 degrees over room temps. So if my room is 72f, then I should only be concerned if the wall is 190. The wall is 115 when I checked. Do you have a laser thermometer. Im sure people will tell you to get one of those.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,535
South Puget Sound, WA
Recessing the TV into the wall may have been a nice design idea, but it's not practical because it puts the TV closer to the flue pipe which is hot. If everything is masonry around this installation then it is going to conduct the heat throughout the surrounding masonry. In the least, a layer of micore insulation board should be placed behind the TV to isolate it somewhat from the heat. The mantel is acting as a shield, so yes, it's getting hot, there is a 500º woodstove just 18" below it. With everything being masonry (is it?) thermal conduction is going to occur. Stone and cement are not an insulator.

At this point, we don't know what the installer did vs what was preexisting. Was there a fireplace here already or is this all new construction? What happens with the stove pipe once it passes through the ceiling of the alcove? Did the installer use insulated chimney pipe above this little alcove?

The top wall gaps could be sealed with silicone but that is not going to remedy this assembly getting hot. The little crumbles of stove cement around the flue outlet are typical. They flake off because this area is expanding and contracting during the heating and cooling of the stove. They are not of great consequence.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,535
South Puget Sound, WA
The biggest concern here is what is behind this construction. What was the cement board on the alcove roof, in the mantel underside picture, screwed into? If wood, this is a very dangerous situation. If masonry, then maybe not. Do you have before pictures or pictures of the construction in progress? In the states, this installation would be illegal unless in a 100% non-combustible enclosure with a large ventilated gap or 8" of masonry between it and any combustible item. I imagine UK code has similar constraints, but home construction is often different there.

What is the stove's make and model? Does the manual define the requirements for this type of installation?

I am going to join this to the other posting on the same topic to avoid redundant postings.
 
Last edited:

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
6,354
Long Island NY
Is the TV fitting snugly in the recession? (can't see well) If so, it traps heat that comes from its own shedding (at its back) and from the nearby pipe. A slit at the bottom and top will help convect the heat away from behind the TV.
 

KELL45

New Member
Sep 12, 2022
12
England
Thank you so much guys for the replies! The stove is a Portway Arundel XL. The construction was metal framed with fire board it’s a fake chimney with the stove flue venting out of the wall on an angle (detached house). The fitter seems very knowledgeable and is coming back on Fri to assess. The mantel is a Focus Cast composite. Every other stove I’ve seen in full action the wall above and the mantle has been cool to touch? I suppose what I’m asking is.. as a novice.. is it “normal” for the upper wall and mantle to get so hot. I’m attaching a thermometer tonight to get a more accurate reading. Thanks again

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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,535
South Puget Sound, WA
Is the wall behind this assembly sheetrock or is it made of a completely non-combustible? Do you have a picture of the chimney pipe installed, but not covered? Is this whole assembly vented anywhere at the top to release trapped heat?

Based on the design I can not see how this would not get very hot unless significant insulation and venting were designed into this enclosure. The stove manual is surprisingly light on installation requirements. Instead it refers to multiple BS requirements. The manual does clearly state:

Stoves become extremely hot within use, therefore the fireplace to which the stove is installed must be made from durable fireproof materials. This product must be installed on a constructional hearth. Such items risk cracking unless cut into sections to allow for expansion and backed by heat resistant concrete. Even beyond the safety clearances stated items subjected to radiant heat from the stove can still become extremely hot, therefore please take care when siting items such as fuel, paper etc.
 

GrumpyDad

Minister of Fire
Feb 23, 2022
573
Champion, PA
Like BeGreen said, you would need to show more. Where does this thing exit? Up through the roof? If so how? Out back via an elbow of some sort?

What is that back wall made of behind the stone? And behind that? In other words, I see stone veneer, which Im assuming they attached to something is that something drywall? Cement board? And then what is behind that? I see alot of people (myself included) that when they originally consider a stove and non combustible materials, they assume at the surface level. But it doesnt work that way. Non combustible means to the distance required (in your case 20inches on the sides and 25 to the back). So if there is any combustible material 20 inches to the sides or 25 to the back, this needs to be redone/rethought. Im already assuming so by what Im seeing unless that back wall behind the stove is cement, and an outside wall to the house.
Im also assuming that piece of cardboard is covering up a hole that is where the pipe leads out and up. Where does that pipe go? I see cables dangling there, hopefully they didnt lay them over the stove pipe if the pipe does exit through that cardboard ? Also, what was the thought process on how you will access that control box when (not if) your HDMI cable fails and you need to replace it?

Im also concerned you are not 20" from the side of the stove to the edge of the wall where the sheetrock/drywall starts. The installer may have interpreted that as being ok as you are behind it, however if I were you I would take temp readings to the very edge of that drywall as well and measure it.

That alcove is going to trap alot of that heat in. I know others will say that a fan wont work, but I think it will help move air out of there more quickly. Did the stove dealer review this design by chance? Did the installer review the stove specs and make sure they married up?

I love the concept and the wood storage area looks cool however that's going to look beatup in no time. Overall I think you may need to reconsider the work done and may need to reverse course. There will be no magic fix for this aside from reworking the area and adding certain insulation approved for this type of work.

PS I love that crown molding as well. Very nice.
 

KELL45

New Member
Sep 12, 2022
12
England
Thank you for your responses. The fitter is coming back out this Fri hopefully to resolve… Hetas registered so should be fully up to date with current regs.. the twin wall flue goes out the wall on a 45 deg angle (detached house). I have contacted the mantle manufacturer and they feel because the composite mantle has not been fitted flat against the wall it is trapping the heat within causing an issue.. I had a 60 deg reading from wall below tv at its worst! I love the fire and the look in my home so hopefully this will be resolved thanks again
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,535
South Puget Sound, WA
Hope that helps. 60º C is within tolerance for a wood stove and not an uncommon wall temp for a freestanding wood stove.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,535
South Puget Sound, WA
It's safe, but still hot for a TV and above its rated temp most likely. Many TVs have a rating of 10° C to 40° C.