Concerns about purchasing a Used Biomass 40

[xcgreene]

Hello everyone. I’m in need of expertise that I do not have, so I’ve come here. My inquiry is this, is it worth the risk to buy a 5 year old BioMass 40 gassifier unseen, except for some basic photos from craigslist. It is said to have been removed from a home in perfect working condition. But is too far away for me to drive and see it, and then decide not to purchase.

A new BioMass 40 runs about $7000

He is asking $3000

Where else might be a good place to look for a used BioMass 40 gassifier?

I’m proficient in marine engineering, welding, 3phase or home, diesel mechanics, hydraulics, and the like, but I’ve never been involved with wood gassifiers outside of theory to much degree.


Thanks everyone.

 

[maple1]

Sounds like it might be a pretty good deal. I would budget for new refactories.

How good are the pictures? A decent seller should be able to email more & better quality pics of particular angles etc. with an ask. Some good pics of the tubes etc. might help show how well it was cared for (how clean it is).

 

[Mike Fromme]

I'd say it would be hard to judge the condition of any used boiler by pics only.


FWIW I have a 5 year old biomass and it shows no signs of wearing out. The lower refractories are fine. I might replace the nozzle this year.

Dd the old install have return protection? And water quality...

 

[xcgreene]

I've requested pictures of the tubes, and for any indication of water quality while in operation. Its good to hear from users that the Biomass wears well. Though I'm sure, as with most things, it's all about good maintenance. I was told that "the refractory brick was treated". Is there an extra treatment to put on these bricks? I've never heard of this.

 

[tom in maine]

I suspect the refractory might have been skimmed with retort cement. If this is correct, it means the refractory was cracked and/or worn and should probably have been replaced.
This is a tough call. My first reaction would be to be conservative and not go with a used unit that you cannot inspect thoroughly.
And, of course, fully understand why it is being sold and how much it was used. What was the annual amount of wood put through it? Was there any buffering (storage) in the system?
How does the combustion chamber innards look?

 

[maple1]

I've requested pictures of the tubes, and for any indication of water quality while in operation. Its good to hear from users that the Biomass wears well. Though I'm sure, as with most things, it's all about good maintenance. I was told that "the refractory brick was treated". Is there an extra treatment to put on these bricks? I've never heard of this.

Don't forget to ask about return protection like said above. And if it's a yes get a picture of that too - just sos ya know. If it's a no, and storage was used - that's a bad combination.

 

[woodsmaster]

If it had return protection, Id probably buy it. Of course id offer a few hundred less than he is asking... Plan on installing new refractory and door seals.

 

[flyingcow]

All good posts, but i think you should be alot closer to $2,000.00 than 3k. And you need to put your eyes on it yourself.

Can you go get it yourself? 3/4 pick up or bigger. Or a good trailer will do it. But these can be a bear to handle and rig.

 

[xcgreene]

What I know:

-Return protection, have picture as proof.

-No cracks in brick. Normal wear. Owner had treated brick with ITC-100 (snake oil? Thoughts?)

-Tubes look good from what I can see, I requested a better photo.

-Water treated with CST EcoGreen Series.

-Boiler 5.5 years old

-Good communication with seller.


I agree with “Flyingcow” the price should be lower, I’m just seeking any value at all in this boiler, price TBD as far as I’m concerned. I’m offshore currently, and will not be able to see any boiler in person before I must buy one for the winter season. I could ask a friend to drive that far to determine quality, but I feel this is too much to ask anyone without a guaranteed pickup. If all else fails I must drop the beans and buy a brand spanking new one from New Horizons if I cannot find a trustworthy used one, unseen, in time.

Not an Ideal situation to be purchasing I know… but it’s the hand I’ve dealt myself, so I must make due.


And I’m grateful for internet folk in situations like this, piece of mind is always hard to put a price on.

 

[Mike Fromme]

If the boiler comes with extras like the return valve, pumps, expansion tanks etc... It could be a good deal at 3k.

But even though the refractory bricks are not cracked I'd budget having to replace them in case they crack in transit. They might be brittle after 5 years of use.

 

[Tennman]

I've found the "bones"; welds, design, and components of our BioMass 60 to be very good. Agree that at least the nozzle needs replacing, but you could make a SS nozzle guard for the first season then replace the nozzle next year and keep using the nozzle guard. Lower ceramics are easy to replace. If he wasn't running storage it's easy to imagine he just grew weary of the attention required to keep the house consistently warm. Processing and feeding wood to a non-storage system requires perseverance and patience. He's probably expecting 2500 so offer 2000 to meet in the middle. With water and temp protection you're fairly safe. Share lots of pictures from the owner and you'll get opinions here. For the price point I've been impressed with Zenon's BioMass. Best Wishes

 

[xcgreene]

Here are some photos of this Biomass 40 in question.

 

[Fred61]

The photo of the interior of the copper tube raises a red flag in my opinion. It appears to have a significant build-up of minerals that would only occur if new water was continuously added to the system. It looks more like a DHW interior. Usually boiler water turns slightly black from conversion of rust and deposits a thin black film on the ID of the pipe and boiler which is easily wiped off with one stroke.

 

[Tennman]

When was it last used? Surprising to see surface rust on the lower chamber and the bottom ash chamber. It implies it's been sitting out in the weather. Exterior door doesn't look too bad so seals weren't totally gone. Lots of surface crud but that's normal and I doubt the frustrated owner was much inclined to clean it much. Nozzle looks like it's shot which is normal wear. You may be luckier than me replacing the nozzle.... Ugly job. I'd say the market is small and if you can't inspect offer 1500 and explain you're taking a big risk. But even at 2k your odds are still pretty good. How much of a risk taker are you? The absolute worst would be to put 25 psi water in it and see it leak. But all else is just replacement parts. It's just like buying a used car... Are you prepared for someone else's problems. But I'll give you better than 80% likelihood you'll be ok. But it's not my money. These boilers are manufactured in Poland by a well respected boiler manufacturer. A good value. I presume you've read thru the BioMass Sticky. Lots of happy and frustrated users. But those that did the right things end up happy. The only thing that would worry me was a leaking pressure vessel. All else just parts. Let us know if you pull the trigger.

 

[Tennman]

BTW, I didn't notice a copper tube. Could be rust. There's no copper in a 60. But I'm looking at pics on my phone.

 

[maple1]

BTW, I didn't notice a copper tube. Could be rust. There's no copper in a 60. But I'm looking at pics on my phone.

I see a copper pipe in the last pic - but don't know what it is. Must be fresh feed?

Also agree it looks like it's been sitting a while - quite a bit of surface rust in places. Could use a good cleaning & new nozzle. A pressure test would tell the tale - but I don't think I've ever read of a Biomass with a leak? 5 years isn't really that old for a boiler as long as it was treated OK - mine is 3 years old now & except for one refractory that cracked in the first winter (which I still haven't done a thing about and won't be for the foreseeable future), I see no noticeable signs of deterioration.

I think I'm also now thinking $2k with the rusty pics - and I also think I see some creosote buildup in spots. (Hard to tell for sure...)

EDIT: I also don't see a pic of the area of the top of the tubes/HX - that would be a place that may be subject to lack of maintenance/cleaning issues, I think.

 

[Tennman]

That's correct Maple. There's never been a report of a leaking BioMass on this forum to my knowledge. The current owner appears to have done all the right things regarding corrosion. Poster still hasn't stated why the owner removed it from service.

 

[xcgreene]

It seems her reasons for selling the boiler do not pertain to its condition. I should leave it at that. I'm requesting again a picture of the tubes. She does not seem to know her way around it very well, but well enough. I'll get back with the one photo.

 

[Highbeam]

Selling her husband's sports car.

 

[xcgreene]

Didn't know you guys were such marksmen over there in Washington.

 

[Tennman]

Ok. That explains a lot. It would take a very, very, special woman to feed and care for one of these things with no man in the house. And there's been a ton of men on this forum toss in the towel. My wife is way above average for doing strenuous tasks and caring for the boiler. But no way she'd take off the top cover, remove the turbs, power brush the tubes, etc. I.e. She can run it but no way maintain or fetch wood. Anyway, this is actually good news to help your decision xc.

Particularly if she prices it like that famous $2500 new Porsche story sold by a scorned woman. Carry on.

 

[Armaton]

Is the 8th pic of a "NEW" refractory in cardboard I see? If so may be a decent deal.

 

[flyingcow]

Ok. That explains a lot. It would take a very, very, special woman to feed and care for one of these things with no man in the house. And there's been a ton of men on this forum toss in the towel. My wife is way above average for doing strenuous tasks and caring for the boiler. But no way she'd take off the top cover, remove the turbs, power brush the tubes, etc. I.e. She can run it but no way maintain or fetch wood. Anyway, this is actually good news to help your decision xc.

Particularly if she prices it like that famous $2500 new Porsche story sold by a scorned woman. Carry on.

Might want to see if she's selling any other items at a low price....

 

[woodsmaster]

Surface rust caught me by surprise. Mine doesn't have any rust like that, but i use it year round too.
Looks like it's been sitting outside a while. Probably not good on the fan.

 

[woodsmaster]

would also be very hard on the controller and that is a $200 dollar part.