Confused about what to get...

[dvto2]

I am burning a 22 year old Consolidated Dutchwest, FA288, the big one. I burned coal for the first few years but it was so dirty. Someone broke one of the glass doors and the stove sat for 10 years and then I began burning wood about three years ago. I regasketed the stove this year and plan on using it. It heats the main part of the house very well, the bedrooms are cool but nobody seems to mind. I need to feed the stove three times per day to keep it cranked and I have turn it down at night and during the day to have coals which may be why I built up so much creosote.

My set up:

I have a 2400 sq ft raised ranch in northern CT. The house is about 50 years old. The stove is in a finished basement next to a very open stairwell leading to a very open main living area. Bedrooms are off to the side on both levels.

The chimney is 8 by 12 ceramic tile, changing to 12 by 12 about half way up, about half of which was replaced last year after a chimney fire. The stove chimney is about 25 feet, and does 3 bends around the fireplace up above it. I tried to get a 6 inch liner down it but it would not go past the bends and my mason said he did an install in a similar situation and would never do one again.

I will keep a very close eye on the creosote this year, but worry if I really want to heat with wood, I will want a new stove. After reading many threads these are what I am thinking of:

My closest dealer has pacific energy as his main line but actually talked me into refurbishing the Dutchwest.

The next closest dealer has Hearthstone and suggests either the Manchester, @ $2300, because it is convective, or the Equinox, @ $3500. I realize these are not cat stoves - the dealer claims their secondary burn is almost as good as a cat and never wears out. I visited his shop and his warehouse - he seemed like a good guy.

I see a lot of recommendations for the Woodstock stoves, but I am a bit intimidated about trying to move and install a 700 lb stove myself. Not sure how I feel about a steel stove but the Ideal price is comparable to the Manchester and the Progress price is comparable to the Equinox.

I see a lot of buzz about Blaze King. There is a dealer within 30 miles who quoted me a price for a King similar to the Progress and the Equinox. The King is not the most attractive stove in the group but the stove is not in the main living area so I would be willing to trade function for form.

There is also a Quadrafire dealer about 35 minutes away but I don't see much buzz about them.

My wife and I both work but we have two kids in college so I do have to watch what we spend.

Anyone want to weigh in?

 

[blades]

First off is the stove using the same flue as the fireplace? By national code it should have its own. I am not a fan of basement installs. Can you move the stove in the basement to an exterior wall and then pass through to a new insulated flue system. Don't care what stove you use your flue system as described is a a nightmare as you already have experienced and very likely will again. It is very bad that the flue changes to an even larger area x feet up this allows the gas to slow down and cool off creating the creosote problem and hence the flue fire you experienced. The 3 turns also slow things down as well adding to your misery. Over all it is a very poor installation.

 

[dvto2]

There are two chimneys side by side, so the stove chimney is separate. The stove is next to an exterior wall.

 

[bholler]

Get a sweep out there not a mason. A good sweep will get a liner in there. I may involve cutting holes in the chimney ect but it can be done. Another option would be to just put in a new class a chimney

 

[begreen]

If you replace the stove definitely get a 3 cu ft stove. There are a wide range of them at various pricing tiers. If the basement is mostly utility use then I would get a simple utility stove in the $800-1100 range.

Is the basement insulated?

 

[Woody Stover]

I would think you may be able to get an un-insulated 6" liner down there...hard to say without seeing it though. Not as good as insulated, but it would definitely reduce creo deposits, it would draft well, and cleaning would be easier. With the basement install I would definitely go with a convective stove; You need to heat air so it can move upstairs. You also want the blower option to really pull hot air off the stove. You said you have a PE dealer close by; How about the Summit? Price looks to be in line with your cheaper options...

 

[Woody Stover]

If the basement is mostly utility use then I would get a simple utility stove in the $800-1100 range

Englander 30NC includes the blower at Home Depot, or Summer's Heat at Lowe's...same stove.

 

[bholler]

I would think you may be able to get an un-insulated 6" liner down there...hard to say without seeing it though.

with bends in a 7 by 11 it may not work without opening it up. We have gotten them in occasionally by using either heavy wall or mid weight liners that are more flexible and smaller outside diameter and by vibrating them but there are also plenty of times we have to cut holes to get it in

 

[Woody Stover]

with bends in a 7 by 11 it may not work without opening it up. We have gotten them in occasionally by using either heavy wall or mid weight liners that are more flexible and smaller outside diameter and by vibrating them but there are also plenty of times we have to cut holes to get it in

Well, how about 8 x 11? How do you open it up when it's half way up the chimney??

 

[bholler]

Well, how about 8 x 11?

Haha well yes if it was 8" inside it would work but they are not. Many are not even 7"

 

[dvto2]

My chimney definitely s@ck$, and there is a deck over the outside wall so it would be awkward to run pipe, which why I was wondering if a better stove my solve this problem.

 

[Rearscreen]

I'll weigh in, 700 lbs in. I moved my Progress 3 times last year by myself. It's not easy, but it's doable. I have owned several Hearthstone models and yes they were great stoves. I was ready to buy another one last year to bump out the F500, but the configuration would not fit in this particular hearth. The Progress would, yet I was skeptical about the catalytic. After using it last winter in northern CT, I will never go back to a non cat stove, and I am going to the Woodstock BBQ tomorrow and picking up an extra cat just for the heck of it. Not that I need it, as the last few fires here in my new place in VT burned exactly as it had when it was new. One person said burning this stove is boring. It actually is as it takes a very long time to use up the fuel, sort of a slow dance with the flames.

 

[Woody Stover]

My chimney definitely s@ck$, and there is a deck over the outside wall so it would be awkward to run pipe, which why I was wondering if a better stove my solve this problem.

No, you actually need better draft with the new stoves for them to operate at peak efficiency.

 

[dvto2]

Hmm... so I'm basically scr÷w÷d.

 

[Rearscreen]

Hmm... so I'm basically scr÷w÷d.

Don't give up. I can actually imagine a pipe running through a deck, maybe you could build in chairs around the stack as an outdoor warm area...there is always a way to design away problems....

 

[dvto2]

Hmmm... maybe I need to consider this. I'd have to knock through my tile and cinder block. What kind of pipe would I need? How far away from my cedar siding would it need to be?

 

[dvto2]

I also had the thought of trying to get the liner down without the nose cone, drilling holes in the end to tie a rope and collapsing the end to a point, rather than the full circumference of the nose cone. However, I wouldn't really know how collapsed the liner would be and it might be very hard to clean.

 

[begreen]

Take a moment to think in terms of a fresh slate. We had to do this with our house. Eventually two masonry chimneys came out and a new metal one in a new location went in. Radical move at the time but it turned out to be a good decision. If you can it's time for some pics of the place and chimney plus optional locations so that we can see what you are up against. A floorplan sketch would also help.

 

[dvto2]

Take a moment to think in terms of a fresh slate. We had to do this with our house. Eventually two masonry chimneys came out and a new metal one in a new location went in. Radical move at the time but it turned out to be a good decision. If you can it's time for some pics of the place and chimney plus optional locations so that we can see what you are up against. A floorplan sketch would also help.

I just had the upper half of the chimney rebuilt. Insurance paid for most but I wish I'd thought of all this sooner. I will upload some pics.

 

[begreen]

Do the upper and lower fireplace flues combine into one? If yes, it sounds like the repaired chimney is still servicing the upper fireplace so all is not lost. The lower system could always be a hassle due to the offsets so fixing the problem once and for all may be a better solution. Hard to say at this point. I find in these cases it is at least worth the mental exercise to start with a clean slate and come up with a best design scenario. That way you can better weigh all options.

Another option to explore is whether it would be possible to tap into the chimney with a thimble before the lower bend. I'm speculating here as I don't have the chimney sitting in front of me.

 

[dvto2]

Do the upper and lower fireplace flues combine into one? If yes, it sounds like the repaired chimney is still servicing the upper fireplace so all is not lost. The lower system could always be a hassle due to the offsets so fixing the problem once and for all may be a better solution. Hard to say at this point. I find in these cases it is at least worth the mental exercise to start with a clean slate and come up with a best design scenario. That way you can better weigh all options.

Another option to explore is whether it would be possible to tap into the chimney with a thimble before the lower bend. I'm speculating here as I don't have the chimney sitting in front of me.

There is a separate chimney for both the stove and the fireplace. The bend is not too far above the thimble so I would probably just come straight out. Here are some pics. Thanks for all the comments.

 

[dvto2]

Here is another pic of the deck. An outside pipe would run up where the ladder is. I suppose I might also run it straight under the deck and up the rail but that also seems weird.

 

[begreen]

The bend is not too far above the thimble so I would probably just come straight out.

Good to know. Do you know where the second bend is above the first? Is it still below the ceiling by at least a foot?

 

[dvto2]

The bends are going around my heatalater fireplace. I think the first one is about ceiling/floor level. The second one goes up the side of the fireplace and there is probably a third one to move the tile back to the being next to the fireplace chimney.

 

[begreen]

Have you discussed with a good certified sweep the option of tapping in a new thimble at least above the last bend? And possibly locating the point of the second bend (from the basement floor up)?