Constant smoke smell when not in use

[aouke]

Hello everyone,
This is my first time posting here although I have been reading countless posts since I bought my townhouse over a year ago, which came with a Vermont Castings Winter Warm (large) [VC WW]which sits in my fireplace that has a chimney up an outside wall.
As soon as I moved in I noticed the constant smokey smell in the house. It is especially noticeable when the air is more heavy.
I began my investigation into what could possibly be wrong and after after reading a number of posts and peaks behind the stove I thought that the lack of a block off plate was the problem so i removed the stove to install the block off plate, at that point I learned that it was a direct connect system and did not have a liner going the entire height of the chimney.
I installed the block off plate (https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/making_a_block_off_plate/) and re installed the stove. Unfortunately the smell continued.
At that point I was hoping that maybe the smell was wind related and purchased/installed a Vacu-Stack Wind Resistant Chimney Cap. Which obviously still has not worked.
I then decided that maybe my HVAC system was the culprit as my main return vent was in the same room as the fireplace. So i temporarily sealed up that return vent (only other one is now a tiny one near the bedrooms), but that hasn't worked.
I also even installed new gaskets hoping that was the issue but not.
The only thing that had been working was basically burning 24/7.


Unfortunately a few weeks ago the damper in my VC WW somehow became disconnected and no longer works. which has rendered the stove useless until i can take it out again to attempt to fix it. Which has to wait until the weather becomes slightly warmer in case I have to keep it removed for a few days. Air seems to be leaking into the house from mostly the bottom of the stove and some out the sides

At this point I am obviously extremely frustrated with the situation and am looking for the best solution and turn to you folks for some help. The options I see are as follows:
1. fix the damper and continue to just burn as often as possible and deal with the smell when not burning.
2. Buy a new wood stove and hope it is air tight and no air can leak out when not in use
3. seal up the fireplace

Please let me know if you can think of anything to remedy the situation on that list or not thanks so much for your help!

Summary of some details.
2000 sq ft townhouse. 4 levels (1- basement; 2- main living; 3-bedrooms; 4-attic)
All electric HVAC so wood heat is a great money saver during the winter months
Fireplace - in living room
Wood burning stove insert - Vermont Castings Winter Warm (large)
Install type- direct connect
Chimney location - on outside wall
Chimney height - not higher than the roof line but two feet higher than any part of the roof within ten feet

 

[pen]

I'm thinking the smell is from the chimney having creosote built up in it and you are smelling it once things downdraft in the chimney.

Have you had this setup reviewed by a chimney sweep?

I'm thinking it may need a heck of a good cleaning, and time to consider installing a liner,,,,,, and from what you said about the stove, might be time to start shopping there too.

What are the dimensions of the chimney? I'm guessing it has a traditional terra cotta liner?

In the meantime, it may seem silly, but couldn't hurt, if you have any old candles around the house (like a smelly one that wound up not smelling so good) I'd put that in the stove and light it up on days when the air is heavy and the stove isn't running, perhaps it would have just enough heat to get a slight draft started and keep the smell from coming down and into the house.

 

[aouke]

I have had several chimney sweeps come to look at it. Each says something completely different from "you need to raise the height of the chimney" to "just seal it up, this whole neighborhood was built wrong" (which is BS because my neighbor 100ft away burns just fine.
I do agree it needs a good cleaning, however a cleaning alone doesn't seem like the solution as residue will always exist and even if he was able to clear all the creosote the next time i would burn the same issue would happen.
The liner is traditional terra cotta. i believe its a 10x10.
regarding the candles, i have tried and they did not work either.

 

[begreen]

I agree with pen. Direct connects are notoriously dirty, especially if the sweep is lazy and does not remove the insert and throroughly clean the smoke shelf and any other debris collecting surfaces. To solve the problem I would have the chimney properly cleaned top to bottom, then a full liner installed.

 

[brenndatomu]

The liner is traditional terra cotta. i believe its a 10x10.

To solve the problem I would have the chimney properly cleaned top to bottom, then a full liner installed.

Agree with BG, install a stainless steel liner...problem very likely solved

 

[begreen]

Be sure to specify that you want the smoke shelf and damper area thoroughly cleaned by the sweep before the liner is installed.

 

[aouke]

OK so definitely going to get it cleaned thoroughly. And certainly am considering having the liner installed. But is there a reason why having the SS liner istalled would solve the issue?

 

[begreen]

A full liner will completely eliminate the accumulation within the chimney. That is most likely where the smell is coming from. Having a 6" full liner will also increase draft that should keep a constant suction on the flue.

 

[2wheels]

Do you have a cap on your chimney?

 

[aouke]

Do you have a cap on your chimney?

Yes i have a Vaccu-Stack chimney cap.

 

[2wheels]

Yes i have a Vaccu-Stack chimney cap.

Ok, I know very little about stoves.
Our old house had an insert and used the existing fireplace flue. We always had a cap on the chimney but once it blew off and I when it rained I could smell that smell in the house.

By the way i was told this was an illegal installation in Ontario anyway. The fire always burned good and the clay tiles never had much build up so I don't know why it would be.

 

[pen]

If it were me, I think I'd try using one of those creosote sweeping logs as it might help dry out deposits in the chimney as it is now, which could mean the sweep is better able to remove the smelly deposits later.

Also, if I weren't having a full blown fire everyday, until you get things fixed, maybe a small (but hot burning) kindling fire in the stove each day could help to keep the draft going the right direction.

 

[bholler]

By the way i was told this was an illegal installation in Ontario anyway. The fire always burned good and the clay tiles never had much build up so I don't know why it would be.

It does not pass code anywhere that i know of because it is dangeour and typically does not work well at all. They are also a pain to clean so they rarely get cleaned properly adding to the danger. And as for the op problem i agree a liner will help you immensely.

 

[2wheels]

It does not pass code anywhere that i know of because it is dangeour and typically does not work well at all. They are also a pain to clean so they rarely get cleaned properly adding to the danger. And as for the op problem i agree a liner will help you immensely.

Ok, you are right that it was difficult to clean, especially up in behind the damper assembly. The sweep I had come in did not clean this area, he is the one that told me it was illegal.

To the OP, I didn't mean to open a can of worms with my comment. Sorry if I did.

 

[bholler]

Ok, you are right that it was difficult to clean, especially up in behind the damper assembly. The sweep I had come in did not clean this area, he is the one that told me it was illegal.
To the OP, I didn't mean to open a can of worms with my comment. Sorry if I did.

Not a problem i just thought that i should respond to it the real problem is the possibility of co leakage and the high potential for a chimney fire. Our policy on slammers like that is that we will clean them once so we can inspect everything and give an estimate for installing it correctly after that we will not touch it unless it is to hook up a liner. It is not worth the trouble or liabilty for us and we dont want to encorage anyone using a setup like that

 

[velvetfoot]

So, downdraft will happen when cold but it won't be stinky?

 

[bholler]

So, downdraft will happen when cold but it won't be stinky?

possibly but with a properly sized and insulated liner a down draft will be much less likely and yes less stinky

 

[aouke]

I have multiple carbon monoxide detectors in my house (one in the same room as the stove) and it hasnt been a problem. I realize it is more of a problem for slammers and less for direct connects.
I just want to be sure that if I invest the money to have the liner installed it will actually solve the issue.

 

[bholler]

I have multiple carbon monoxide detectors in my house (one in the same room as the stove) and it hasnt been a problem. I realize it is more of a problem for slammers and less for direct connects.
I just want to be sure that if I invest the money to have the liner installed it will actually solve the issue.

With a properly installed direct connect co should not be an issue. But the stove will not preform very well it is very hard to clean properly there is more creosote buildup and there is more potential for a back draft when the stove is not in use. We cant grantee that it will fix the problem but it will help the set up in many ways and It really is the only way that i know of to help with the smell other than burning 24/7

 

[pen]

I don't have a fireplace situation, but did burn for years directly into a terracotta lined brick chimney from the basement.

With the basement install, getting a downdraft happens and I would too smell creosote unless the stove was burning or I plugged up the chimney.

Once I cleaned it well and installed the liner, I do still occasionally get a downdraft, but have not since gotten that acrid creosote smell.

With the old setup, I never did get much creosote, but what I did get was always very black. With the insulated liner, I only have a touch of black creosote on the cap and the very top foot or two of the chimney (and then it's so thin it's almost non-existent) and anything in the liner below that is just grey soot.

But remember, if you aren't burning cleanly (due to running the stove too cool or with under-seasoned firewood) you could build up stinky creosote in virtually any system. The key is, it's much harder with a better setup than you are working with.

The hard part is making sure what you having now is spotless before an insulated liner ever goes down it.

Good luck

pen

 

[aouke]

I will definitely get the chimney thoroughly cleaned ASAP and then will install a proper liner, I just hope that investing that kind of money actually works as opposed to just sealing it up.

 

[Charles1981]

1) Get the chimney cleaned. This will help with the smell a bit but no cleaning can get rid of 100% of the creosote and it doesn't take much to create a offensive smell.
2) Get the chimney lined and ensure it is insulated and have a block off at the chimney cap and the base (which you have already done).
3) During the spring/summer when you stop burning you will probably have to plug the chimney up with insulation as you can still easily get a down-draft the chimney that will still put a smoke smell in your house.

 

[pen]

3) During the spring/summer when you stop burning you will probably have to plug the chimney up with insulation as you can still easily get a down-draft the chimney that will still put a smoke smell in your house.

Since putting the liner in, I personally was able to stop doing that as the liner stays so much cleaner and gets much cleaner after running a brush through it.

I'm hoping for the same results for the OP.

 

[aouke]

So just to be clear. Do you all believe that putting in the liner will be able to stop the actual problem of air flowing down the chimney constantly?
Or is it just going to be flowing downward with less odor?

 

[bholler]

So just to be clear. Do you all believe that putting in the liner will be able to stop the actual problem of air flowing down the chimney constantly?

It should reduce it but probably will not stop it completely but it should absolutely not smell like it does now. Are you planning on burning the stove consistently or just occasionally?