Continued Manchester smoke issues

[velocity1]

Hi All,
I have had a few threads of issues i have been working through with my stove and chimney set up. I pretty much have everything buttoned up with the exception of a smell of smoke above the side door handle which seems like its coming from the top of the firebox seal, pic attached with arrow for reference. Some quick details, I had the chimney extended to now a total of 20 feet, chimney company added a stretch of class a pipe to the top of my chimney. I also previously had 2 90 degree bends coming off the stove which includes the T in the masonry chimney. I now replaced one 90 with 2 45's. So between the chimney extension and the 2 45's the stove drafts much better, no smoke in the room when im starting it up and seems more stable. Also, fresh splits measuring 15-18%. The issue is that when I have the stove loaded and its cruising along gassing off all the way until it transitions to the coal stage there is a constant smell of smoke above the side door handle near the firebox seem. I know most say if you have a good draft regardless if there is a leak in the stove smoke wouldn't escape rather air would leak into the stove causing your stove to not burn right. Is it possible you could still have smoke leak out under a good draft? With the stoves flute in the center if you have a bad seal off to the side not directly where its drafting could some smoke escape since draft i would think be less on the outskirts of the stove? I think im at the point im just going to call the place that i bought the stove from and have them come out and see if there are any physical issues with the stove (this is my last resort and hoping i dont have to call them, they dont have the best customer service history for warranty work)

 

[neverstop]

Hi All,
I have had a few threads of issues i have been working through with my stove and chimney set up. I pretty much have everything buttoned up with the exception of a smell of smoke above the side door handle which seems like its coming from the top of the firebox seal, pic attached with arrow for reference. Some quick details, I had the chimney extended to now a total of 20 feet, chimney company added a stretch of class a pipe to the top of my chimney. I also previously had 2 90 degree bends coming off the stove which includes the T in the masonry chimney. I now replaced one 90 with 2 45's. So between the chimney extension and the 2 45's the stove drafts much better, no smoke in the room when im starting it up and seems more stable. Also, fresh splits measuring 15-18%. The issue is that when I have the stove loaded and its cruising along gassing off all the way until it transitions to the coal stage there is a constant smell of smoke above the side door handle near the firebox seem. I know most say if you have a good draft regardless if there is a leak in the stove smoke wouldn't escape rather air would leak into the stove causing your stove to not burn right. Is it possible you could still have smoke leak out under a good draft? With the stoves flute in the center if you have a bad seal off to the side not directly where its drafting could some smoke escape since draft i would think be less on the outskirts of the stove? I think im at the point im just going to call the place that i bought the stove from and have them come out and see if there are any physical issues with the stove (this is my last resort and hoping i dont have to call them, they dont have the best customer service history for warranty work)

View attachment 305548

Was the liner insulated it's full length?

I still believe what your smelling is trapped moisture; basically what they say you can expect during break-in fires where black liquid drips down the legs of the stove. Looking at the design of this stove it seems that there aren't vertical tie-rods but horizontal tie-rods. I don't know where this would mean the liquid would be dripping from, but it may very well be around the side door area. It smells extremely similar to liquid smoke https://www.thespruceeats.com/liquid-smoke-overview-335486. Which is made by condensing smoke from burning wood. And if you aren't running the stove consistently/hot enough you may be condensing smoke inside the wood stove on/in the soapstone. Once you get the fire hot enough it drives the moisture out of the stones and it has to go somewhere. On my stove it drips down the tie-rods and the smell permeates around the entire stove. I don't know where it would drip on your stove, but I still believe this is what you're smelling.

 

[velocity1]

Was the liner insulated it's full length?

I still believe what your smelling is trapped moisture; basically what they say you can expect during break-in fires where black liquid drips down the legs of the stove. Looking at the design of this stove it seems that there aren't vertical tie-rods but horizontal tie-rods. I don't know where this would mean the liquid would be dripping from, but it may very well be around the side door area. It smells extremely similar to liquid smoke https://www.thespruceeats.com/liquid-smoke-overview-335486. Which is made by condensing smoke from burning wood. And if you aren't running the stove consistently/hot enough you may be condensing smoke inside the wood stove on/in the soapstone. Once you get the fire hot enough it drives the moisture out of the stones and it has to go somewhere. On my stove it drips down the tie-rods and the smell permeates around the entire stove. I don't know where it would drip on your stove, but I still believe this is what you're smelling.

The liner was pretty much what you were thinking, they only stuffed it at the top down a few feet with the insulation. I had the owner here and said despite the other 10 feet or less of uninsulated liner it should be fine since its covered by brick and tile. Not sure how much truth is in that but he didn't seemed phased by it. But it definitely does run much better now with the increased height.

As for the smell i had my wife also give her opinion, she has a more sensitive nose than me. It does seem more on the sweeter, mesquite esq, side of it. And yeah on this model its only horizontal for the tension rods. In that pic I removed the top plate (#23 in the pic) this weekend, its only 2 bolts and i looked around at the seams hoping to see some soot build up on where its leaking but nothing. I also rechecked the ground and no residue from anything leaking. The smell is definitely only that area and not around the stove anywhere else. If it ends up being trapped moisture how can there still be some when Ive been burning for a while now? The one thing that makes me think its not moisture is there is no smell on the coaling stage, i would think it would be continuous in that case?

 

[velocity1]

This is the extension they added of insulated pipe

 

[neverstop]

The liner was pretty much what you were thinking, they only stuffed it at the top down a few feet with the insulation. I had the owner here and said despite the other 10 feet or less of uninsulated liner it should be fine since its covered by brick and tile. Not sure how much truth is in that but he didn't seemed phased by it. But it definitely does run much better now with the increased height.

As for the smell i had my wife also give her opinion, she has a more sensitive nose than me. It does seem more on the sweeter, mesquite esq, side of it. And yeah on this model its only horizontal for the tension rods. In that pic I removed the top plate (#23 in the pic) this weekend, its only 2 bolts and i looked around at the seams hoping to see some soot build up on where its leaking but nothing. I also rechecked the ground and no residue from anything leaking. The smell is definitely only that area and not around the stove anywhere else. If it ends up being trapped moisture how can there still be some when Ive been burning for a while now? The one thing that makes me think its not moisture is there is no smell on the coaling stage, i would think it would be continuous in that case?

I would think this indicates it is related to condensing smoke. During the coaling phase there shouldn't be any/minimal smoke. Also, by the time the coaling phase occurs you've probably driven out all of the condensed moisture.

What STT have you been running at? How long does it take to ignite the splits during start-up/reloads?

This is the extension they added of insulated pipe

View attachment 305565

how is that extension connected to the liner?

 

[velocity1]

I would think this indicates it is related to condensing smoke. During the coaling phase there shouldn't be any/minimal smoke. Also, by the time the coaling phase occurs you've probably driven out all of the condensed moisture.

What STT have you been running at? How long does it take to ignite the splits during start-up/reloads?

how is that extension connected to the liner?

I don’t really monitor STT, the Manchester has that double plate top so i have to shoot the ir gun in the holes which is kind of a pain to get anything accurate. I usually just go off of the cat gauge and the stove pipe gauge gauge or ir gun 18” up off the stove flue. 18” when it’s crushing with cat engaged it’s around 325/350 and cat gauge about in the middle maybe a little higher.
Haven’t heard much on condensing smoke before , is that normal, does it cause leaks?
As for connecting to the liner they slipped a stainless steel pipe into the liner and then slid the other end into the class an and screwed it all together.

 

[velocity1]

Reloads with a standard coal base it catches quick, like sometimes i’m not done reloading and it’s catching already.

 

[neverstop]

I don’t really monitor STT, the Manchester has that double plate top so i have to shoot the ir gun in the holes which is kind of a pain to get anything accurate. I usually just go off of the cat gauge and the stove pipe gauge gauge or ir gun 18” up off the stove flue. 18” when it’s crushing with cat engaged it’s around 325/350 and cat gauge about in the middle maybe a little higher.
Haven’t heard much on condensing smoke before , is that normal, does it cause leaks?
As for connecting to the liner they slipped a stainless steel pipe into the liner and then slid the other end into the class an and screwed it all together.

View attachment 305569 View attachment 305570

I'm not really sure about condensing smoke; I'm just providing you with information about my experience with a similar stove. Maybe my problem is a bad split gets in there every once in awhile. I know that if I'm running 24/7 I rarely smell it unless the load has an issue taking off and it smokes for an extended period of time.

 

[velocity1]

I'm not really sure about condensing smoke; I'm just providing you with information about my experience with a similar stove. Maybe my problem is a bad split gets in there every once in awhile. I know that if I'm running 24/7 I rarely smell it unless the load has an issue taking off and it smokes for an extended period of time.

Ah got yah and sorry for the questions, being newer to it im trying to understand it all. Yeah for my issue its pretty much constant when running 24/7 outside of the coaling stage and i dont really run the stove down super low, i usually burn medium low to medium (a little less than 3/8" from the air lever being all the way closed down (low). The plus side is the smell isnt anything where im worried about health concerns, too much smoke in the house. Its mild and im more sensitive to it now that i have been noticing it. It just lets you know that your burning wood now and then when i get a little smell across the home.

Oh and forgot to mention so far no more carbon monoxide issue since the added length. I purposely let it burn out this weekend and check the CO levels. all showed 0 so i was pretty happy with that

 

[GM80NY]

My chimney goes up 3 ft 90 through the ext. wall and 90 again up and two more 45s to get outside of an eve. My windows are def old and need replacing. If it's really cold and there's no wind outside the smoke smell can come inside through badly insulated windows or other penetrations.

This is my 3rd season burning

I had issues last year with smelling smoke periodically. Things I've done differently this year.

Used a drill with my cleaning brush to clean the chimney.

Replaced gaskets for the glass and main door. Getting the factory glue off from the main door gasket will take some time. Feels more like black silicone than hardened glue.

Wood has sat for close to a year. I've only checked on one big piece, but this year and it read below 20% and I've not had any smoke liquid drips come out from the bottom. You can tell too because if it does, it smells pretty strong.

I've done this since the beginning, but my wood ring is next to the stove, and I try to get it loaded up when there are about two wood loads left inside so the wood in the ring gets heated and the outside dries if it's been sitting with some snow or rained on it. Also, the manual for mine also says to make sure the wood is at least room temp before loading.

This year I've had way less random smoke smell when the fire is going. Another thing to be aware of is how much flame you see. Once you close the bypass the flame shouldn't change much coming off the wood. If it does it could be a few things: 1) Your wood might not be dry enough on the outside 2) Wood might be too cold for it to light quickly. 3) Closed bypass too early. 4) Your catalyst could be packed with fly ash on the inside.

What I've noticed is I want to try to avoid situations where the gas builds up in the stove and ignites in too big of intervals because I think that that creates a decent amount of pressure, and it can push fumes out of any weak point in the stove or the chimney pipe in the house. I've seen the gas build up and ignite and it makes a big whoosh sound and I have seen the smoke push out of the unions of the chimney pipe in the house. This was due to my Catalysts getting pretty close to fully clogged.

Also making the valley in the center does help. You can also load splits front to back on the bottom and create that pocket instead of moving the ash.