Do I have any rights against a pellet insert that does not work? It is a new install this summer had nothing but trouble. The dealer has been out 5-6 times (2 - 3 weeks wait each time). It still is not working. The dealer says there is too much combustible air in our chimney. They tried to add curve and bends in the 4 inch vent pipe, disconnected the thermostat, and now they say they will install 3 inch about 5 feet long to try to choke out the air. Still waiting for them to tell me exactly when they are coming. In the meantime my stove will start and go out withing 10 minutes. It will not stay lit no matter how many times I try. So now I have a pellet insert and I am heating with oil. I am going to contact the BBB any other Ideas? BTW the first stove they installed blew the glass out now they are saying the air might have caused that. Thanks, Shyann
Country Winslow Lemon
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I contacted technical support and they were great! We walked through starting it up and waited till it went out. He said he thinks it the control board because the auger should feed pellet continuous for 20 minutes. He gave me his name and told me to have the dealer call him. The dealer is closed today I will call them first thing tomorrow.
I have a Country Winslow that had the same problem. The dealer and Country, when it used to be Country, now owned by Lennox, swapped out the stove and gave me a new one under warranty. There is a defect in the stove, not sure what it is, but they gave me a whole new stove without too much trouble. I think the burn pot was out of alignment from the factory. The actual circle that holds the burnpot, not the pot itself. Maybe it's just my dealer, but this new stove has been with for 5 years now. Had to change out the ignitor a few times, only once out of warranty ($85). Problem is the air-wash system. It doesn't work...I mean, I have tried to close up the drafts on every part of the stove and it still only gives a few days of clear glass. Nowhere near 30 days... Puts out good heat overall. Only real variable is the pellets. Some good, some bad...
I have a winslow ps140 insert.
worked fine for the first ton. Cleaned it, and now, i too cannot keep it lit.
i could care less about the glass being clean (but yes, they also pitched that to me too). I just want the thing to stay on longer than 15 min.
It seems that it just stops auging pellets when it shouldn't. I don't know what to do. I've tried manually filling the burn pot up front to maybe over-load it and get a solid ember base, but the same thing still happens.... just stops auging after 15-20 min.
totally pissed off about this. $4200 down the drain.
worked fine for the first ton. Cleaned it, and now, i too cannot keep it lit.
i could care less about the glass being clean (but yes, they also pitched that to me too). I just want the thing to stay on longer than 15 min.
It seems that it just stops auging pellets when it shouldn't. I don't know what to do. I've tried manually filling the burn pot up front to maybe over-load it and get a solid ember base, but the same thing still happens.... just stops auging after 15-20 min.
totally pissed off about this. $4200 down the drain.
I have the same problem with a "lemon" Winslow PI40 Insert. Purchased this summer, installed middle of October 2008 (had to wait forever for the installer to be available). Since the installation the repair technician has been out 8 times. Once he caulked the exhaust tubing that goes up the chimney. Several times he said he couldn't figure out what was wrong, but replaced some snap switches. I have received many different failure codes. Short red blinks, long red blinks, a combination of red blinks. Pick one, this stove has done it. I am not mechanically inclined, and have to rely on the technician to tell me what is wrong and fix it.
I religiously clean it out every day when it does work. Have to. It is the insert so there is not an ash drawer, just the bottom of the stove where it collects. The glass is dirty and can't see through it daily. And the ash collection is a lot. The tech says that the installation is fine. No problems there.
He had a diagnostic tool the last 2 times he came and it showed how many times the stove failed, and where. Each of these times he had the dianostic tool, he said he had to replace another snap switch. I have had 6 snap switches (not sure exactly which ones) replaced.
Now, the stove is not working again. He is trying to find the diagnostic tool and said he will be back to see what is wrong in a couple of days.
I am so frustrated and now want this stove removed and my money refunded. All $3800 of it. And, none of that is installation, just cost of stove.
I feel totally ripped off. Already been through one ton of pellets just this short (warm) season. Our winter has not been very cold, but the stove eats pellets like no one's business. I could have spent this money on another alternative that would actually work and now feel like I am stuck.
Any suggestions from anyone out there?
Thanks
I religiously clean it out every day when it does work. Have to. It is the insert so there is not an ash drawer, just the bottom of the stove where it collects. The glass is dirty and can't see through it daily. And the ash collection is a lot. The tech says that the installation is fine. No problems there.
He had a diagnostic tool the last 2 times he came and it showed how many times the stove failed, and where. Each of these times he had the dianostic tool, he said he had to replace another snap switch. I have had 6 snap switches (not sure exactly which ones) replaced.
Now, the stove is not working again. He is trying to find the diagnostic tool and said he will be back to see what is wrong in a couple of days.
I am so frustrated and now want this stove removed and my money refunded. All $3800 of it. And, none of that is installation, just cost of stove.
I feel totally ripped off. Already been through one ton of pellets just this short (warm) season. Our winter has not been very cold, but the stove eats pellets like no one's business. I could have spent this money on another alternative that would actually work and now feel like I am stuck.
Any suggestions from anyone out there?
Thanks
Between the dealer and the manufacturer insist on a new stove. That's unreasonable for a new expensive appliance under warranty.
Man! I feel for you guys. I don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes. I paid a lot of money for my stove too, but at least it works! I would do WHAT EVER was necessary to get either a new stove or my money back.
If no one cooperates, one thing you can try and do is get your credit card company involved (if that is how you paid for it). You can claim that the goods and service were not received as promised and try to get them to get the transaction reversed (I've done this before, it's painful, but it has worked for me).
This gets everyone's attention quick, as the credit card company will start an investigation once you file a complaint. And then there is always the Better Business Bureau as well...
This gets everyone's attention quick, as the credit card company will start an investigation once you file a complaint. And then there is always the Better Business Bureau as well...
Thanks for the support.
After posting my message I got so mad, I decided I would go down to the store for a face-to-face.
The guy who sold me the stove said he would call me this afternoon with a solution.
I gave him only two options, either come and replace my stove with a new one, or take this one and give me my money back.
I told him I could make this really ugly......and used the suggestion with the credit card company (that is how I paid for it); among other ways. Media publicity, word of mouth at work (I work at the city's largest employer), etc....
He said he would definitely make this right. I hope this is true.
I will keep you all posted.
Meanwhile, I have to find another way to keep the house warm..........
And, once again, thanks for the suggestions.
After posting my message I got so mad, I decided I would go down to the store for a face-to-face.
The guy who sold me the stove said he would call me this afternoon with a solution.
I gave him only two options, either come and replace my stove with a new one, or take this one and give me my money back.
I told him I could make this really ugly......and used the suggestion with the credit card company (that is how I paid for it); among other ways. Media publicity, word of mouth at work (I work at the city's largest employer), etc....
He said he would definitely make this right. I hope this is true.
I will keep you all posted.
Meanwhile, I have to find another way to keep the house warm..........
And, once again, thanks for the suggestions.
nmart said:
It is really hard to have to do what you did, but that is a large chunk of money. I hope this is the end of it, and they do make it right with you.
The same thing happened to me years ago with this stove. I ultimately had it replaced. I think someone was learning how to design a pellet stove when they made this thing. I have cleaned and adjusted the fans, duct work, traps, etc...so many times now. I've replaced the ignitor on my own and now feel pretty confident I could replace or repair anything on it. Here is the main problem with this insert. The air mix and quality of pellet can wreck havoc with this stove. Don't expect the glass to stay clean, that is a farce, but you should be able to keep it going if the burnpot is lined up properly (mine has to be tweaked about 1/4" turn to the right to line up - I know...what's that about? Actually, I have two burnpots, one from my current stove and one I grabbed from the one they took away, funny thing, the old one doesn't fit in the space for the new one. It's like they changed the die for it.) and the pellets are receiving enough air to keep the combustion going. It sounds like the pellet rate and amount of air is off. It can be changed by using the diagnostic tool that the shop has when identifying the errors. Basically, get them to give you a new stove. I spoke to the parts guy for this stove in New Jersey and he basically told me, "You have to be ready to perform the maintenance and repair on this thing on your own, or what's the point of owning it?" Not sure, but as with anything like this, it's never easy...
I received a full refund from my dealer. I contacted BBB and wrote a demand letter for a refund and sent a copy to the Assistant DA who handles cunsumer complaints. She actually called the dealer for me and asked if they would give me a refund. Good luck, Shyann
I now have a Quadrafire classic bay what a difference!
I now have a Quadrafire classic bay what a difference!
What kind of pellets are you burning in these Winslow's. I have two one in the house and one in the garage for over 4 years with no problems except for one igniter failure. The glass does get a light line across the top of the glass after a week or so if I don't clean the burn pot out.
tberry said:
I am using premium pellets - 1/2 hardwood oak and 1/2 softer premium.
I bought 10 bags of lower priced pellets at Home Depot and they clogged my auger up.
I have burned through 1 ton of the mix above so far (when the stove works)..
Update.......still debating with the stove store.
I did tell them that if they did not get me a replacement stove or my money back (at the a firm decision on either) by Monday morning, I would call my credit card company and have the charge reversed. And......I will have their stove too
They definitely didn't like that response. The store rep is supposedly supposed to show up at my house today at 4:00 to measure for a replacement stove. He also said he would be there last night and never showed. We'll see..........
i've used Vermont Green Supremes and American Premium.
The vermont's are hotter, but burn WAY too fast. i'm using nearly double the fuel with these over the americans.
The vermont's are hotter, but burn WAY too fast. i'm using nearly double the fuel with these over the americans.
Well, he showed up. Late, by 1/2 hour.........made no excuses other than he had to pick his son up; which wasn't on the plan when he talked to me earlier.
Whined on about not being able to put another stove in until the Lennox rep told him it was okay.
Said the rep was on his way out of town again for a week, so it might take awhile.
Told him that was unacceptable.
He measured the area since this is an insert and said he didn't have any inserts left.
I said that would be fine to put a freestanding in instead. The area is large enough and I don't care asthetically. I just want functional heat.
He then said he would get another stove in so that I could have heat while waiting for the rep, but had to find a "burn unit" , a used one, I am guessing.
Well, that was Friday evening.
No word from him yesterday other than he would have something by the close of day and I didn't hear from him, and he won't answer his cell phone number he gave me.
Today is Sunday, still no heat and replacement stove.
Guess I will have to get ugly and call the credit card company in the morning and reverse the charges.
I warned him, and he said he definitely didn't want to go through that process; and he was doin everything he could.
It doesn't seem like it and now I have had a cold house for over a week.
Whined on about not being able to put another stove in until the Lennox rep told him it was okay.
Said the rep was on his way out of town again for a week, so it might take awhile.
Told him that was unacceptable.
He measured the area since this is an insert and said he didn't have any inserts left.
I said that would be fine to put a freestanding in instead. The area is large enough and I don't care asthetically. I just want functional heat.
He then said he would get another stove in so that I could have heat while waiting for the rep, but had to find a "burn unit" , a used one, I am guessing.
Well, that was Friday evening.
No word from him yesterday other than he would have something by the close of day and I didn't hear from him, and he won't answer his cell phone number he gave me.
Today is Sunday, still no heat and replacement stove.
Guess I will have to get ugly and call the credit card company in the morning and reverse the charges.
I warned him, and he said he definitely didn't want to go through that process; and he was doin everything he could.
It doesn't seem like it and now I have had a cold house for over a week.
here's the latest saga on the pellet stove.........
I reversed the charges on my credit card; so the amount is sitting in dispute. Not sure where all of that winds up getting me solutions; but at least I will eventually have my money back if all else fails.
Then, the merchant has completely fallen back on the Lennox warranty, and no other recourse.
So, after numerous phone calls to Lennox, the local Lennox rep and the main office in California; all I have are empty promises. Sort of.
They had to send a tech out AGAIN to replace some switches.
This time they replaced the circuit board, as well.
Then the local Lennox rep said that it was fixed........even though the tech said to make sure Lennox replaces the stove - since it will invariably fail again.
Then the Lennox rep wanted to blame the pellets. Premium oak, highest grade I can get in Albuquerque is what I am using. I said unless Lennox made their own pellets, and said that only Lennox pellets could be used, that is not an acceptable cop out.
And, if the stove couldn't handle most kinds of pellets, what is the point of buying a $4k pellet stove in the first place?
Then I told him of the continuing problems with tremendous soot build up on the glass after only a couple of hours of burning at low temps.
Then, he said he would talk to the Lennox tech and see what could be done.
Later today he called and said, (I quote) " I guess we will replace your stove. We are doing this for you."
I replied, "you better believe you are going to replace it for me...........but better yet, you should replace it because of the warranty you profess and the great customer service you propose. Which in fact, neither of those things have you done well....or even adequately."
Well, we will see.
I don't have a date as to when this new stove will arrive.
Maybe never.
My guess is that I will have to make another 50 phone calls to various Lennox people and still get no where.
No matter the verbal promise of a replaced stove.
So.............as my dispute stands on my credit card, I have one warning to all......
Don't think you are gettting superior customer service and warranty by buying from Lennox.
They will love to sell you a pellet stove, but they don't want to stand behind their product if you have a problem.
I wish I had known this before.......I would have bought a stove at half the price and half the headaches.
Even if it failed, I wouldn't feel so ripped off.
I reversed the charges on my credit card; so the amount is sitting in dispute. Not sure where all of that winds up getting me solutions; but at least I will eventually have my money back if all else fails.
Then, the merchant has completely fallen back on the Lennox warranty, and no other recourse.
So, after numerous phone calls to Lennox, the local Lennox rep and the main office in California; all I have are empty promises. Sort of.
They had to send a tech out AGAIN to replace some switches.
This time they replaced the circuit board, as well.
Then the local Lennox rep said that it was fixed........even though the tech said to make sure Lennox replaces the stove - since it will invariably fail again.
Then the Lennox rep wanted to blame the pellets. Premium oak, highest grade I can get in Albuquerque is what I am using. I said unless Lennox made their own pellets, and said that only Lennox pellets could be used, that is not an acceptable cop out.
And, if the stove couldn't handle most kinds of pellets, what is the point of buying a $4k pellet stove in the first place?
Then I told him of the continuing problems with tremendous soot build up on the glass after only a couple of hours of burning at low temps.
Then, he said he would talk to the Lennox tech and see what could be done.
Later today he called and said, (I quote) " I guess we will replace your stove. We are doing this for you."
I replied, "you better believe you are going to replace it for me...........but better yet, you should replace it because of the warranty you profess and the great customer service you propose. Which in fact, neither of those things have you done well....or even adequately."
Well, we will see.
I don't have a date as to when this new stove will arrive.
Maybe never.
My guess is that I will have to make another 50 phone calls to various Lennox people and still get no where.
No matter the verbal promise of a replaced stove.
So.............as my dispute stands on my credit card, I have one warning to all......
Don't think you are gettting superior customer service and warranty by buying from Lennox.
They will love to sell you a pellet stove, but they don't want to stand behind their product if you have a problem.
I wish I had known this before.......I would have bought a stove at half the price and half the headaches.
Even if it failed, I wouldn't feel so ripped off.
Finally got a new stove.
They dealer brought out the new stove yesterday but refused to hook it up.
The new stove needed a cleanout pipe and I still had to argue about getting one of those.
I bought the old one, that wouldn't work on the new stove and they didn't want to give me a new cleanout.
They finally did, but I had to drive to the distributor's warehouse to get it.
They said that their installer could put the new stove in, but I would have to pay for it.
And, he was going to charge me $400 to do that.
I told him no, and between a friend and I; we got the new stove in.
Just in time for the weather to be 70 degrees.
Bottom line, Lennox took FOREVER to honor their warranty.
The dealer (Carefree Spas, Billiards and Stoves) was totally useless in the whole entire process.
This is probably a New Mexico "thing." And more so an Albuquerque "thing."
I find customer service is nonexistent in this town.
Stores don't care if anyone buys anything from them or not.
The prices are high, and since there is not much competition; we are forced to buy from inferior establishments.
Most of the competitive companies have left or closed most of their doors.
Found out today that the "largest" 6 stove stores are all one. Owned by the same person.
No wonder they don't care what happens, they know that if I want to go a "stove store" to purchase a stove, it will be them
They don't lose out.
I will never believe that spending more money for a "large" brand name product with a warranty is worth the extra money.
Hopefully this stove will not have the same problems. I'll have to wait until it gets cold to test it now.
Okay,,,,,,,,,enough venting...........happy spring everyone!
Jan
They dealer brought out the new stove yesterday but refused to hook it up.
The new stove needed a cleanout pipe and I still had to argue about getting one of those.
I bought the old one, that wouldn't work on the new stove and they didn't want to give me a new cleanout.
They finally did, but I had to drive to the distributor's warehouse to get it.
They said that their installer could put the new stove in, but I would have to pay for it.
And, he was going to charge me $400 to do that.
I told him no, and between a friend and I; we got the new stove in.
Just in time for the weather to be 70 degrees.
Bottom line, Lennox took FOREVER to honor their warranty.
The dealer (Carefree Spas, Billiards and Stoves) was totally useless in the whole entire process.
This is probably a New Mexico "thing." And more so an Albuquerque "thing."
I find customer service is nonexistent in this town.
Stores don't care if anyone buys anything from them or not.
The prices are high, and since there is not much competition; we are forced to buy from inferior establishments.
Most of the competitive companies have left or closed most of their doors.
Found out today that the "largest" 6 stove stores are all one. Owned by the same person.
No wonder they don't care what happens, they know that if I want to go a "stove store" to purchase a stove, it will be them
They don't lose out.
I will never believe that spending more money for a "large" brand name product with a warranty is worth the extra money.
Hopefully this stove will not have the same problems. I'll have to wait until it gets cold to test it now.
Okay,,,,,,,,,enough venting...........happy spring everyone!
Jan
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