Cracks in sheetrock repairs

[wahoowad]

Hey guys,

I had a contractor repair joint cracks in an upstairs gabled ceiling. He was also asked to fix some other misc. wall damage (nail holes, etc) and repaint the entire room. He said it was an easy fix - rip out the old tape seam and replace, remud and paint. 5 months later I see the cracks reappearing.

His painting subcontractor did crappy work - we had to get them back out there once already because he did a poor job sanding smooth some areas, also painted over sheetrock dust on a wall. To the primary contractor's credit he made the painter come out and fix. This time I want a different worker to do the repairs - the other guy was a slob and I don't want him back in my house.

The contractor is says my house is settling and causing those cracks to reappear. I don't have any settling issues anywhere else in the house. My house is 22 years old and built on a slab - I doubt there is any more settling. Then again, something is causing those cracks to appear and I'm wondering if it is my house settling or perhaps the mud shrinking and cracks appearing where it is drying.

 

[Cutter]

Houses can have some strange dynamics. Wind loads on different sections can create just enough pressures to crack mud. Temp differences in unconditioned attics and crawlspaces also can make a house creak and pop. my house will make noises as the sun travels across different areas of roof on a daily basis. These kind of reoccuring cracks in drywall are hard to address. My sugestion is to get your contractor to use a mesh type tape and a Durabond or Welcote quick setting mud to embed the tape and then a normal lightweight mud for the final coats. Even then, they might come back to haunt you. Good luck.
Brad

 

[johnn]

Do they keep returning in the same location? What season r u in when noticing the cracks? What temp was the room during the first repair?

 

[wahoowad]

Do they keep returning in the same location? What season r u in when noticing the cracks? What temp was the room during the first repair?

The cracks are in the same location where different angle sheetrock comes together. The repairs were done in Spring so the room was neither cold nor hot. I am noticing the cracks now in the fall - hasn't gotten too cold yet.

I don't want to bust the guy's chops if the cracks are influenced by the house. I'm just thinking they were poorly done. He said he would fix them, never mentioned they would crack again so soon.

 

[dave11]

I'd guess it is not the mud itself, or the guy doing the work. Unless they're piling the mud on in layers more than 1/4 inch thick, the cracks would be seen right away, if due to poor application of joint compound.

The fact that it takes months to appear suggests something else must be changing, and if it's just happening now, it's likely due to wood shrinkage in the surrounding framing, either from the cold, or more likely, from the dropping humidity.

But it can be hard to fix permanently. What directions are the cracks running? How much an area is affected?

You said it was at the joint between two planes. Do you know what sort of joint was used? Plain tape? A plastic or metal edge might hold up better.

 

[woodsman23]

tell them to use fiberglass netting tape for repairing..

 

[sculptor]

tell them to use fiberglass netting tape for repairing..

Exactly what I was going to suggest. I worked in the sheetrock business in my youth. I would also make sure it is nailed off good before he starts taping again.

 

[LLigetfa]

I'm not sure what a gabled ceiling is but cracks that form where different angles intersect are usually from truss cord lift. Some of the cords in a truss are affected by differences in humidity and temperature resulting in it changing shape. The best way to deal with joint cracking is to anticipate where and how the structure will move and then floating the drywall near the joint. By floating, I mean don't use screws or nails near the moving joint. Find the nails or screws with a magnet stud finder and remove them on the side of the joint that moves, leaving them in on the other side.

Where you have nail pops, examine closely whether in fact the nail is popping out. Sometimes it's just the filler that pops. Some guys use a fast setting mud that reacts with the metal and rusts. Humidity condenses on the nail head and the rust swells the filler. Other times the "pops" are from the screw breaking through the paper resulting in the drywall sagging. In that case remove the screw and either put a plaster repair disc like in the pic, or abandon the hole and drive in a new one beside it if it isn't the "truss lift" issue.

 

[[email protected]]

As you can see from all the different responses there are any number of reasons you might find recurring cracks. Certainly using thin layers of Durabond before finishing with lightweight compound is a good and correct solution. You might have the contractor try this product as well. We have been selling it for years with pretty good results, and it's pretty inexpensive. The cracks still need to be repaired. But prior to painting apply the product over the repaired area and it creates and flexible surface which will hopefully stay together.
(broken link removed to http://doitbest.com/Spray+Paint-Wm+Barr+Company-model-FG695-doitbest-sku-790990.dib?memberid=1082&associate=true)

BTW - I have a similar situation which I believe was caused by applying the mud to heavy originally. But I'm too lazy to fix it.

good luck with it.

 

[Gooserider]

Note - the above mentioned product is NOT reccomended for use on plumbers... %-P

Gooserider

 

[[email protected]]

Now that is funny -

 

[oilstinks]

anywhere the sheetrock mud is thick it will crack. The problem with it is it dries hard and does not give with any settleing. When i built my wood stove room i used the plastic grid type tape and where it is real thick with mud it cracked. Wish there was someting with a little flex for those joints

 

[[email protected]]

I believe that is the point of that goodbye cracks stuff, and there must be others products out like it. It doesn't really stop the mud from cracking. But it does keep the surface from cracking.
I guess the real anwser is to not let the mud get too thick. That's easier said than done ofcourse. But even that doesn't solve the problem of shifting framing members. The suggestion from LLigetfa was correct to solve that issue, use floating joints. I've seen that done, but I've never tried it myself.

 

[gzecc]

Is the area where the cracking occurs a high wall or high cieling (higher than standard 8-10 feet)?

 

[wahoowad]

Is the area where the cracking occurs a high wall or high cieling (higher than standard 8-10 feet)?

No, standard height ceiling.

It was a small job so I suspect the workers did a thick layer of joint compound and it has cracked, rather than several thinner layers.

 

[gzecc]

I would make sure the drywall was screwed securely to the framing. Then use mesh tape and I would mix the joint compound myself. I would use the green and white bag for the first coat then the blue and white bag for the finish coat. These items are available in all home depots. You can also get different width mesh tape depending on your application.

 

[NEDLAX]

I think the problem has to do w/ humidity during the course of the year. Expanding and contracting, If it you have truss up lift several times over its never going to stop. My family has done drywall since 1949 the easiest way to fix this problem is caulk it ...seriously its paintable and flexible you will never see it. Otherwise remove tape and if its in a corner of a room or corner of the ceiling remove tape and then remove nails or screws in the corner and float it then refinish it, the joint compound will hold it in place. We currently never screwdown 2 foot from edge. It has helped us with our warranty work. less call backs

 

[LLigetfa]

We currently never screwdown 2 foot from edge. It has helped us with our warranty work. less call backs

While I advocated just that, when I rocked my house the building inspector called me on it and made me put in more screws. Of course they popped at the corners and the tape cracked and peeled.

The other thing you will find is that kiln dried lumber really isn't dry at all. There is a lot of shrinkage that happens, enough to make nails/screws pop, stucco to buckle and vinyl siding to come loose. If you use drywall screws that are too long, when the wood shrinks, they stand proud. The trick is to use the shortest that will do the job. Bigger (longer) is not always better.

 

[Gooserider]

We currently never screwdown 2 foot from edge. It has helped us with our warranty work. less call backs

While I advocated just that, when I rocked my house the building inspector called me on it and made me put in more screws. Of course they popped at the corners and the tape cracked and peeled.

The other thing you will find is that kiln dried lumber really isn't dry at all. There is a lot of shrinkage that happens, enough to make nails/screws pop, stucco to buckle and vinyl siding to come loose. If you use drywall screws that are too long, when the wood shrinks, they stand proud. The trick is to use the shortest that will do the job. Bigger (longer) is not always better.

Should have made him put it in writing so you could bill him for repairs after it failed....

Gooserider

 

[tumbles]

The 1st thing I would do is to cut out what is loose with a blade knife. Second, it's cracking because it's moving. What you need to do rescrew (not nails - please - no nails) the sheetrock to the framing/strapping (like gzecc) told you to do. Use coarse screws atleast 1 1/2". The sheetrock shouldn't move!. I'm assuming your house is strapped. If not, you are stuck. After any loose mud or gaps are filled, you need to apply paper tape. If it's a regular 90 degree corner, use paper tape. If it's anything less than 90, use a hardened paper like ultraflex/straigt flex. I make these repairs constantly in many types of homes for people I know and I've been taping for over 25 years. Some things crack as wood dries, but after the 1st couple of winters it should stop. Appying mud over crackles won't do a darn thing. You aren't addressing the issue why it cracked in the 1st place. I screw all my angles very securely, fill all gaps, and then tape over them and I seldom have call backs. Yes I've seen truss flex and other weird things, but it's the excepting rather than the rule. I hope it helps.

 

[John_M]

Over the years I've had to repair minor sheetrock cracks in various houses I purchased. The caulk method recommended by NEDLAX is what I used. That method has always resulted in a simple, usually invisible and permanent (I think) repair. I used the same method last week to repair a few cracks in and around an inside corner. One cannot see the cracks now.

John_M

 

[NEDLAX]

Depending on your climate your house will probably never be moisture free, houses are continually drying out. Not as much as after the construction process but depending of your insulation,number of people living @your house, and vapor barrier or not. People produce moisture breathing, cooking, showering. where do you think the moisture goes? My house for example has a crack on a inside corner at the ceiling it would appear in septmber(contracting) and disappear in april(expanding). You can also see this in your hardwood flooring that is why they recommenced leaving a gap for expansion. So if your house is continually moving why would you screw of every inch of drywall so there is no play room... repeat customer $$$. My company doesnt do repairs for money like some small drywall contractors, so the caulking fix would make them have less billable work. I dont live in your climate mines worse with contrast in change in temps and humidity, so im not an expert for your area. So these are the practices that we've learned work best here. But ive been told that the definition of insanity is doing something over and over expecting a different result.

 

[LLigetfa]

Building codes are all over the map WRT vapour barrier. A coat of oil base paint can meet minimum code in some places. Truss uplift can be a result of moisture but also the temperature difference between top and bottom chord.

(broken link removed to http://www.rushwood.ca/trussuplifting.html)
(broken image removed)