creosote and moisture
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i still have moisture, water runs out of my clean out door in my garage it seems worse today as it is colder, the stove pipe is about 5-6 feet above clean out door , when its really cold and you have been running stove ice literally forms in chimney , you can open the clean out door and its a solid chunk of ice, then when warms up , it melt and goes into my garage, its a mess and also smells bad, what do i do?
I too would be interested in hearing this. I have a little bit at the top of my chimney from our last stove, and it's glued my chimney cap on!! What a pain in the rear!
I don't know how the pros do it, but you'll want to get rid of it now, before it becomes a hard glaze. That's the worst kind of creosote to have. Look back a bit. I believe Bart listed a product that can go on the fire. some folks use TSP. For serious glazes, there are products that can be applied that will start breaking it down so that it can be cleaned. Hopefully a pro sweep will chime in with good instructions. To prevent this, burn a good hot fire first thing in the morning and stick to dry wood only.
In the meantime here's a link to a couple of articles about creosote:
(broken link removed)
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hoglaze.htm)
In the meantime here's a link to a couple of articles about creosote:
(broken link removed)
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hoglaze.htm)
Based on the other posts, the problem appears to be that you have a cold chimney and a pre-EPA stove that is producing a lot of moisture and creosote. If you see smoke after a good fire gets burning, that smoke is condensing in the cold flue and creating moisture and creosote.
If part of the problem is due to burning wood that is not seasoned, stop burning it and get dry wood. If the stove is being dampered down too soon, give the fire more air until the wood is fully charred, then damper it down, but check again for smoke coming out of the stack.
What is the size of the flue pipe in the chimney? Is there room for an insulated liner to be installed when you get the new stove? That will help too.
If part of the problem is due to burning wood that is not seasoned, stop burning it and get dry wood. If the stove is being dampered down too soon, give the fire more air until the wood is fully charred, then damper it down, but check again for smoke coming out of the stack.
What is the size of the flue pipe in the chimney? Is there room for an insulated liner to be installed when you get the new stove? That will help too.
What kind of chimney and is it still gooey sticky stuff or is it hard glazed? How much of it and where in the chimney is it located?
A dumb question, but there is a cap on the chimney, correct? A while back our cap rusted and had a large hole in it, so maybe check for that also.
shame on me, i do have a cap but it is not installed yet , my question in return is , and im not experienced with this but , why would the cap help.. its not snowing or raining , so the moisture is coming else where....... yes it is a pre epa stove pos but the wood is seasoned..
Houndog, When I had my old stove, I had water in the cleanout and basement floor for many years. I could never figure out where it all was coming from. The cap was in good shape as well as the roof/chimney flashing. Two months ago, when I installed the new stove, the water stopped. I checked it a few days ago and it is still dry. I didn't think that condensation could cause that much water. Three weeks ago I installed a rigid liner and it made a world of difference in the way the stove drafts.
Jim
Jim
Hounddog, I just posted on your moisture question. I would clean the pipe and chimney two to three times a year with the old stove, getting a five gallon bucket of black "potato chips" each time. Also I had the hard, glazed type of creosote in the bottom third of the chimney. No matter how hard I brushed it, it wouldn't come off. I put a rigid liner in three weeks ago, so now I don't have worry about it anymore.
Jim
Jim
hounddog said:
Well, it has snowed/rained in the past so the water is going down your flue and into the ash box and also soaking into soot build up along the flue.
The cap will help (minimally) to keep the top part of your flue warm and possibly less creosote build up. Plus, keep birds and debris flying down the flue. The other part is safety, if you ever have a chimney fire it will help contain flying chunks of creosote from burning your or someone elses home.
Get that cap on, it usually only take a minute!
merged the threads. they seem to have the same root cause. posting to both was getting confusing and redundant.
Still waiting for flue description.
Still waiting for flue description.
BeGreen said:
if he has a "clean out door' odds are its a masonary, hounddog, need to know the size of the flue, as well as the size of the collar on the unit ,also some more questions
is it interior or exterior?
does it have more that one tube (flue) in it?
does the "clean out door" have a gasket seal?
best thing, seal the cleanout door with a simple gasket (its way below the thimble so it doesnt have to be very high temp stuff ) but dont caulk it shut as it needs to accessed for cleaning.
get that cap installed
!! it will help not only keep weather out , but it helps hold a little heat in the top of the flue. moisture (believe it or not) is a byproduct of combustion, one of the cardinal rules of chimney health is to maintain a temperature above 220 degrees or higher all the way to the top. this keeps moisture in a gassious state (steam) if flue temps drop below 212 degrees the moisture (water) will revert to a liquid state and collect on the flue walls,then it will run down collecting soot as it goes, now as it drips down , it will revert back to steam, this is evaporation which is a cooling function this cools the flue further which increases the effect. this in extreme conditions can cause "cold chimney inversion" or downdrafting in some cases and will cause tarlike creosote to build rapidly. older units which do not "reburn" "smoke" will put more of this soot that the moisture mixes with in a chimney faster, especially when a stove is dampered down. you will definately want to get the flue swept, and we need to figure out where the moisture is coming from soon, as the tar creo is the most suceptable type to chimney fires. im not reallly trying to scare you , but its a serious issue and needs to be addressed promptly.my chimney is masonry block , with a clay reddish -orange insert, the only tar like creosote is near where the stove pipe goes into the chimney and on down to the clean out door , its not caked on , you can just see it here and there where it ran down .cleaned chimney , at start of season. and nothing was in chimney all the way down to the stove pipe entrance. one question with the chimney cap,? is it gonna change the way my stove drafts? this stove was in my house when we bought it a yr ago... just waiting for money to update stove , is there a place that sells newer type epa stoves? i thank you all for your help,.
sorry i forgot to mention , the clean out door, is a metal hinged door with no gasket or seal on it.
I am no expert but would think that no gasket on your clean out door could very well be your problem. the thing with draft is it doesn't care if it comes from your stove or your clean out door and the air has moisture in it. I would install the cap and seal the door it cannot hurt and it might fix the problemhounddog said:
hounddog said:
ask for epa secondary burn stoves or epa cat stove.
A cat stove has a catalytic converter that has 2 be replaced every 3 to 6 yrs & cost $200.oo to 350.oo,allowing for inflation, so maybe secondary burn be less expensive for you.
www.overstockstoves.com & look for an englander stove to match the sq. ft of your house.
www. lowes.com, sells summersheat, same as englander,parts interchange,made same factory. Both are secondary burn stoves. No expensive cats to replace.
www.homedepot.com
www.englanderstoves.com
www.acehardware.com
www.truetemperhardware.com
It is better , IMHO , to buy a stove rated slightly larger than the sq. ft you want to heat, so that when it gets really ,really cold, you have some extra heat to cope with the chill, or if you should decide to add another room to the heat load that you originally thought not to heat. With a slightly larger stove, you have that flexability & a larger firebox will give you a 8 or 10 hr overnight burn. A mid sized stove may not give you a overnite burn at all & a small sized stove definately won't.
small stove =------- 1,000 to 1,200 sq.ft
medium stove= 1200 to 1400 sq
large = 1400 to 1800 sq
extra large = 1800 to 2000 sq
xxlarge= 1800-2700 sq ft
about a $400.oo price difference between the smallest & largest in the englander brand name.
More expensive stoves can have a 1200.oo price difference between their small to xxlarge sizes, depending on a lot of options & etc.
A lot of the extra $ that you spend on a stove is for brand reconition & cosmetic looks.
IMHO, englander, 800.oo, plain jane black to 1295.oo, with gold earings, for large size, is as well made as any of them, if no wheres near as pretty; so it might come down to do you want to impress someone with your pretty Mercadies Benz expensive stove or do you just want to save $ & be warm with your honda stove.
Just my "take " on things,many here love their mercadies stoves, & I don't blame them, a bit.
It's all about what you want 4 your $. I'm a most bang 4 the buck ,type.Others are like,wow,I love just looking at that stove & boy does it throw the btu's. Best 3,900.oo I ever spent!
do a www.ask.com search for wood stoves
Wrap the door tightly with 1-2 layers of Saran Wrap, lay down a thick bead of silicone on the flange and close the door. Once the silicone has set up just remove the saran wrap.
i put a chunk of fiberglass insulation behind door to seal out air, no help, same old crap, my conclusion is that the stove is a pos, and needs to go to the scrap heap..
With good wood and an EPA stove connected directly via an insulated liner, this problem will be history.
BG, have to agree with you. When I changed stoves, the problem went away and I had bad creosote and water on the floor for many years. Chimney is interior with about 5' exposed, so the problem is not exclusive to exterior chimneys. I should've bought stock in kitty litter.
Jim
Jim
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