Creosote forming on the glass....

[MichaelCT]

Hi - I'm a newbie here.

Just started burning wood in the middle of last season.

I have a Jøtul C 450 Kennebec insert, dry wood and run it pretty hot. I cannot seem to have such clean glass like the rest of you folks from what I am seeing with all the wonderful pictures. Creosote just seems to build up on both of my glass doors. I do once in a while clean the glass when the stove becomes very cool (on warm days) to keep it from staying completely black as we enjoy watching the dancing flames on weekends.
I do notice that the fire bricks stay tan in color, not much creosote build up in the box. We use Fat Wood sometimes to get the kindling going.

We do not have a temperature gauge on the insert. Not sure on when to locate one on the Jøtul C 450.

Any help would be great. We would just like the glass to always stay clean if at all possible..

Thanks,
Mike
Fairfield, CT

 

[jpl1nh]

How do you know that you run your insert pretty hot if you don't have a thermometer? I'm sure you have some idea but a thermometer is a big help. I find I have more soot build up on the glass this time of year since I don't run the stove very hot very often since it's not very cold yet. (enough verys in that sentence? %-P) Another few weeks into the season from here it becomes much less of an issue for me.

 

[fossil]

...We would just like the glass to always stay clean if at all possible...

Sorry, but it ain't gonna happen. There are things you can do in the way you load your stove, the wood you use, and the way you operate the stove that will tend to help keep the window clean, but it's not going to "always stay clean". Burn dry wood, keep it away from the window a couple of inches, load E-W instead of N-S, avoid low smoldering fires, burn nice and hot on start-ups. It also depends on the stove/insert...some have more effective airwash systems than others. If the window is getting really black, that's an indication that you need to change what/how you're burning. If it just accumulates some grunge on the inside over time, then that's pretty normal. Cleaning the inside of our stove windows is something we all have to do from time to time. Rick

 

[MichaelCT]

How do you know that you run your insert pretty hot if you don't have a thermometer?

You are right.... I do not know if I am running it very hot or not. I am heading to the stove store after work to buy a thermometer that I can put on my insert.

I have been reading on where to best place the meter on this forum... Great ideas from the members..

How does one get the stove up to 500-800 degrees?

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I agree with fossil. partially because he's right, and partially because he is a minor deity in my faith.

"Ia! Ia! Cthulhu Ftagn!!... (an' fossil too)"

 

[fossil]

I agree with fossil. partially because he's right, and partially because he is a minor deity in my faith.

"Ia! Ia! Cthulhu Ftagn!!... (an' fossil too)"

Minor? Minor? AP, you need the new revised edition of the Book...I'll send you one. Rick

 

[d.n.f.]

"Ia! Ia! Cthulhu Ftagn!!... "

Geek alert!
Wait a minute how did I know that??

 

[Adios Pantalones]

"Ia! Ia! Cthulhu Ftagn!!... "

Geek alert!
Wait a minute how did I know that??

You have no idea

 

[boostnut]

Good luck keeping the glass clean. That is the 1 b!tch I've had about mine. I think the airwash system with this insert leaves some to be desired. I burned nothing but kiln dried oak scraps from a cabinet shop last week and had to clean my glass daily. This will be my 4th year with the kennebec and I'm more than prepared with a good dry assortment of wood, just as I was last year. I really dont think its a function of the fuel in my case as I've experimented with a good variety. The only issue mine faces is a short (10') chimney. Not sure if this would effect the doors or not, kinda frusterating. My advise is to keep oven cleaner on hand, you'll need it when it gets really bad.

 

[Bill]

A 10' chimney seems short to me, what does the manual say? The only time I gunk up my glass (mind you I have a different stove) is when I damper it down to low to get an overnight burn.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

The stove will operate with dirty glass, and it burns off later with hotter fires and colder weather.

Keep the wood away from the glass- it helps a lot

 

[Jay H]

keeping the wood away from the glass works, but of course, the edges of my glass in my Quad gets blackened after a bit, no matter what and you can use the spray on Oven cleaner and newspaper to clean the glass. Works like a charm. I use I think EZ-OFF Oven Cleaner in a spray can...

Jay

 

[billb3]

Clean is relative.

I'm happy with a light grey film that I can almost see what's going on in there.

 

[got wood?]

I agree with AP too...keeping the wood away from the glass helps...so does setting the wood parallel to the glass and not perpendicular. The ends of the splits are where that lovely blackness comes from (from what I've observed) and if they are pointed at the glass, it's as if some punk tagged your glass with spray-paint.

 

[northwinds]

The edges of my stove window get dirty from time to time. Using a trick I learned here, I use a moistened paper towel, dab it in ash from
the stove and clean off the window. I finish up cleaning up the window with a dry part of the paper towel and then throw the paper towel
into the stove to burn.

 

[Stihl Burning]

My Jotul is the same issue. I have dry wood, I burn Hot 700F on the top behind the doors, and I don't get even 24 hours before it is covered in a brown film that obsructs your view. I'm starting to wonder if the "Outside Air" for combustion is a "must do" for this insert installation. Anyone ever bring the "Outside Air" supply from the top of the chimney, down to the insert, something like the vent pipe on a high efficiency furnace set up, to save chopping holes in the fireplace and basement walls? Thank You, Mike.

 

[savageactor7]

I'm thinking you could keep the glass cleaner if you could find a place to attach a thermometer and burn around 500. Even a good hot fire will foul perfectly clean glass but it should not be brownish if you can burn hotter with seasoned wood. Try this ...instead of loading up the firebox burn no more that 1 maybe 2 pieces at a time but much hotter than you are now. Sure you load it up at night who cares then if the glass gets dirty. But in the morning try with just a piece or two at at a time but a lot hotter 550-600 and see if it will help clean of the glass. That temp should do it but after 45min...that's about as clean as it will get.

 

[pyro68]

The only issue mine faces is a short (10') chimney. Not sure if this would effect the doors or not, kinda frusterating. My advise is to keep oven cleaner on hand, you'll need it when it gets really bad.[/quote]

I agree with keeping the wood back from the glass. "dry" is often an issue, listen for any sizzeling when you load the stove. Moisture inside the wood even if it's seasoned will really limit how hot you can get the stove. Chimney could have something to do with it. The airwash functions better on strong draft. When you have the stove banked down to a low fire, not as much draft. When the chimney is pulling hard it will bring air through the air wash as well as the secondary combustion system. Some stoves do seem to function better than others. Travis makes the Lopi and the Avalon brand but in my experience the Avalon seems to keep the glass cleaner.

 

[Marty]

I agree to get a thermometer or two. It is little known that hey do more to tell you the stove is too cold than too hot.

 

[akhilljack]

you have a few options. i use these methods. first when the stove is cool maybe once every 3 or 4 days i use some ceramic glass cleaner which is usualy sold at a dealer or even where they sell regular electric ranges for your kitchen which also have ceramic cook tops. the stuff i have is from a wood stove dealer but is the same as what came with my new range. any way you just spread it on when the glass is cool and rub it around with a paper towel. the stuff i have works great and even if you have realy dirty glass to the point where you cant see through it, it wipes off in about 2 minutes with very little scrubbing. the silicon, or whatever is in the stuff, does all the work. also the more you use it the easier it is to keep clean becuase it builds up a layer of the stuff and makes cleaning a 2 minute job once a week maybe and depending how much you burn some times much longer. i would mostly likely go through maybe a 8 or 10oz bottle per year or less. Or you can burn a hot fire. its hard to do some times though. for my stove (osburn 1600) i have now, it took some time to figure out just what temp and how far to put the wood from the glass. mine wont realy clean the glass until it gets to over 500 stove top temperature that i measure with a stove top magnetic guage although 550 or higher (as long as your comfortable with it) is better. it took about a 1/2 hour-45 minutes to clean mine at 550 even. as far as the how far to keep the wood from the glass thing. i have good luck keeping the wood as far away from the glass as to keep the actual flame off the door (usualy 3 or more inches), but when i am trying to clean the glass with the fire i put the wood where the ends arent facing the door and the wood is about 2 or less inches from the door. it has to be blazing for a long while but it will all disapear and i like to keep the actual flames on the glass to actualy burn stuff off. . as far as getting the fire hot enough, i use good dry seasoned wood mostly, but i get the fire going with the door open. then i make sure all of the wood is lit on all sides and at about 350 i shut the door with the air full open for about 10-15 minutes. i then open the door just barely (1/2 inch or so) and get it blazing for another 10-15 minutes then shut the door again. making sure there is still wood that is actualy burning and not quite to where it looks like coals. after 30 minutes or so it will be pretty hot. then i slowly turn the air down maybe to 75% of full air and adjust it to keep it at 550 give ore take. thats just the way my stove works and hopfuly this might help.

 

[LSaupe]

Quick question concerning a statement above on E-W vs N-S. Which direction is which? How do you define North on these stoves?

I also am having once heck of a time keeping the glass clean. I have a free standing Avalon Olympic. Unfortunately the hottest the stack temp will go is 300F at full tilt. I get THICK black deposits on the glass after one firing. Very difficult to clean off. Tried every fireplace glass cleaner I can find and nothing works well. Changes ti kiln dried pre-packaged wood and still the same thing.

Very frustrating.

Any thoughts on this?

Running a 25 foot stack and with outside air vent.

Larry S.

 

[jotul8e2]

It is early days yet, but my new Jotul Oslo keeps its glass amazingly clean. Since it warmed up today, and is supposed to be warmer tomorrow, I let the fire go out this morning. I thought I'd take advantage of this to see just how hard it would be to clean the glass - for although I had some creosote build up a few times when trying to get the stove to idle, it had burned off each time I let the stove run at 500 deg. for a while. There was still a slight trace of creosote along the top left corner, but all the other spots had been reduced to a white ash.

To my surprise, everything wiped off easily with just water and a paper towel. This has definitely NOT been my experience with other stoves. Shoot, I would not be surprised if my Dutchwest out in the shop hasn't built up creosote on the glass while just sitting there over the summer!

Someone mentioned the possible effects of a strong draft on the airwash system. I do have an absolutely straight 30 foot run from the stove giving an excellent draft. Another factor may be that I use nothing but distilled water on the glass. I suspect any slight traces of mineral deposits from our hard water would provide a "handle" for creosote to attach to.

Now, I've only run the stove maybe 10 days out of the last two weeks, so, as I say, its early days yet.

Mark

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Hi Jay H.

You say use oven cleaner. I've not tried that, either on my past slammer or on my new-this-year Quadrafire 4100-I. I notice on the Quad that the glass has a gasket type material around the glass on the inside, like caulk to hold the glass in. I wonder on the advisability of putting oven cleaner on that material.

I have used my new Quad only three times so far, and have been a little disappointed that the glass gets smoky ... no were has bad as the old slammer, but enough that I clean the class before starting a new fire.

While regular glass cleaner gets most of the grunge off, there is some tough stuff around the edges. In the past I've used a razor blade/scraper.

 

[pyro68]

[I also am having once heck of a time keeping the glass clean. I have a free standing Avalon Olympic. Unfortunately the hottest the stack temp will go is 300F at full tilt. I get THICK black deposits on the glass after one firing. Very difficult to clean off. Tried every fireplace glass cleaner I can find and nothing works well. Changes ti kiln dried pre-packaged wood and still the same thing.

Very frustrating.

Any thoughts on this?

Running a 25 foot stack and with outside air vent.

Larry S.[/quote]

Question for you Larry, approx what is the sq. footage you are heating with the Olympic? When you start the fire, how long do you leave the bypass damper open before you close it?

 

[Jay H]

Hi Jay H.

You say use oven cleaner. I've not tried that, either on my past slammer or on my new-this-year Quadrafire 4100-I. I notice on the Quad that the glass has a gasket type material around the glass on the inside, like caulk to hold the glass in. I wonder on the advisability of putting oven cleaner on that material.

I have used my new Quad only three times so far, and have been a little disappointed that the glass gets smoky ... no were has bad as the old slammer, but enough that I clean the class before starting a new fire.

While regular glass cleaner gets most of the grunge off, there is some tough stuff around the edges. In the past I've used a razor blade/scraper.

Just spray the middle of the glass (or you can just spray the newspaper itself if you want to be real careful) and just use the newspaper to carefully wide the edges with it... The oven cleaner is pretty strong and they recommend you let it sit for a short time, but if you do this regularly you really don't even need that, you can kind of just spray on and wipe off.

Jay