CSA approval of EKO boiler

[sfriedri]

A question for any Canadian owners of an EKO boiler: Did you consult your insurance company and local building code office to confirm if UL approval was satisfactory?

After discussions with New Horizon in the US and the dealer in Markdale, Ontario, I have learned that EKO boilers purchased through either the Markdale dealer or through a US dealer are not CSA approved. There is one dealer in Quebec who imports directly from Orlan in Polland and has the EKO modified and CSA inspected and approved, but his price is higher than the Markdale and US dealers.

I'm also wondering if anyone in Ontario has any information around code requirements for installing a boiler in an attached garage, particularly if the boiler is required to be in an separately enclosed room in the garage.

Thanks

SWF

 

[Donl]

There is one dealer in Quebec who imports directly from Orlan in Polland and has the EKO modified and CSA inspected and approved, but his price is higher than the Markdale and US dealers.

Thanks

SWF

The Quebec importer is very quick to say that the EKO boilers he sells are CSA approved as a wood burning device. That is nothing but salesman B.S.! What they have done is modify the electrical to conform to Canadian standards and place an "Electrical Safety Authority" approval, sticker on the back. When I bought my EKO he assured me that the boiler was CSA approved. When I got it delivered there was no CSA approval just the Electrical Safety Authoity sticker. Was I ever pissed When I called him to complain he tried to tell me that the Electrical safety and CSA were the same thing. Enough B.S., I just moved on. The EKO does meet European standards and because I have mine outside, that's good enough for me. Don't you just love salespeople!

 

[hkobus]

Hi SWF and Don,

I guess we still have the same issue, I spoke with Ken just recently about this. He still claims that he has CSA approval, at every shop he is asked to provide prove. The prove I have been told is needed, is a listing on the CSA website and official stickers.
He promised me a week ago, that he would provide proof and that he does the individual units, instead of a "line approval" Mine also has the electrical safety sticker on the bach and it is a cruel joke.

How is the install going Don?

 

[Chris B]

Hi Guys. I don't currently have a boiler but I asked the same questions. It occurred to me that these boilers are made in eastern Europe and might not have a CSA certificate or the American equivalent. But this is what I was told when I inquired about it. As long as the unit gets installed in a building that is not occupied as a dwelling the insurance company will let it pass. I am not sure about local building codes never asked there. I should call them but I am sure that will be a ordeal in it self, to try and explain the system to some building inspector.
I would think that you would still need to install the boiler in a location that would meet the maximum clearances to combustibles much like the old free standing wood stove of the past.

Chris B

 

[Donl]

I would think that you would still need to install the boiler in a location that would meet the maximum clearances to combustibles much like the old free standing wood stove of the past.

Chris B

I would say your thinking is correct. That would mean a minimum of 4 feet on all sides to combustibles. This minimum distance can be reduced by using appropriate shielding. The EKO is a good gasification boiler. Too bad that the Canadian distributer is not straight with his customers about the CSA approval. I wonder how many people have bought one only to find out that they are going to have a difficult time satisfing the local building inspector and their insurance company. By the way, the Tarm is CSA approved.

 

[Paul]

Hi All

I am going to buy a gassification unit and had been speaking to Ken recently. Thanks for the heads up on the CSA issue. I will also ask for proof before going ahead with Ken. Does anyone have the contact info for the dealer in Markam? Is it possible to contact the BBB to mention the false claims being made? I would just buy the Tarm but I can't afford the storage at this point.

 

[Donl]

Hi All

I am going to buy a gassification unit and had been speaking to Ken recently. Thanks for the heads up on the CSA issue. I will also ask for proof before going ahead with Ken. Does anyone have the contact info for the dealer in Markam? Is it possible to contact the BBB to mention the false claims being made? I would just buy the Tarm but I can't afford the storage at this point.

I wouldn't rule out the Tarm because of storage. There is not much difference between the Tarm and EKO. Both are very good gasification boilers and storage will benefit both equally. You can always add storage to either at a later time. I think some on this forum would even recommend that approach.

 

[heaterman]

Hi All

I am going to buy a gassification unit and had been speaking to Ken recently. Thanks for the heads up on the CSA issue. I will also ask for proof before going ahead with Ken. Does anyone have the contact info for the dealer in Markam? Is it possible to contact the BBB to mention the false claims being made? I would just buy the Tarm but I can't afford the storage at this point.

Interesting comment regarding Tarm and storage. Given that the Tarm and the EKO operate in basically the same manner, why would you not be concerned about storage with the EKO? Salesman says you don't need it?

 

[Paul]

I may have misunderstood but my impression is that the EKO has a better damping down system when heat is not required. The system shuts down air flow and puffs a small amount of air in at 10min? increments to keep the fire going until the system calls for more heat. I am not aware of Tarm having this air tight feature? The EKO also has the cleaning oscillator in the rear smoke tube. The Tarm I don't think has these options- the Tarm looks like it has multiple small tubes for air flow at the rear smoke exit- concerned about cleaning over time at least until I can afford storage to get cleaner burning. I'm not sure about the Tarm vs the EKO with regards to if the Furnaces have the water mass within it circulating in tubes or in a more open design. I have heard of the tube design having buildup that inhibits circulation over time (or is this a problem with open systems? I plan on adding storage someday (I hope) either way I go but am trying to balance the (perceived?) extra features of the EKO against the Tarm's warranty. The price is almost identical and am trying to find something that will help with deciding on which furnace to buy.
Also when I called my insurance broker about installing an -outside furnace- they had no issues when they contacted the carried of the policy. Sure it would be different if I was installing in my basement.

 

[sfriedri]

Thanks for all the information. I have to admit I was a little concerned about the "CSA" approval of the units the Quebec dealer was selling. This shows how great a resource this forum is.

I checked with my insurance agent and he said as long as the boiler is installed to conform with Ontario building code, he has no problems with me installing one in my garage. The Ontario building code allows the installation of unlisted wood burning appliances (as Don and Chris indicated), provided you follow the increased clearances required for an unlisted appliance. You can find this clearance information for free here (http://www.canren.gc.ca/prod_serv/index.asp?CaId=103&PgId=608) versus paying $100 to download a copy of CSA B365 which provides some further detail.

The Markdale dealer is offering a significant discount, and I will be driving there and buying an EKO40 from him tomorrow. I already have a 500gal propane tank that I got for $150. I'll be searching the forum to finalize my plumbing details over the summer.

Thanks for your help.

SWF

 

[Eric Johnson]

I may have misunderstood but my impression is that the EKO has a better damping down system when heat is not required. The system shuts down air flow and puffs a small amount of air in at 10min? increments to keep the fire going until the system calls for more heat. I am not aware of Tarm having this air tight feature? The EKO also has the cleaning oscillator in the rear smoke tube. The Tarm I don't think has these options- the Tarm looks like it has multiple small tubes for air flow at the rear smoke exit- concerned about cleaning over time at least until I can afford storage to get cleaner burning. I'm not sure about the Tarm vs the EKO with regards to if the Furnaces have the water mass within it circulating in tubes or in a more open design. I have heard of the tube design having buildup that inhibits circulation over time (or is this a problem with open systems? I plan on adding storage someday (I hope) either way I go but am trying to balance the (perceived?) extra features of the EKO against the Tarm's warranty. The price is almost identical and am trying to find something that will help with deciding on which furnace to buy.
Also when I called my insurance broker about installing an -outside furnace- they had no issues when they contacted the carried of the policy. Sure it would be different if I was installing in my basement.

The self-cleaning hx tube assembly and the free turbulators would tip the balance in favor of the EKO for me. It's a major improvement over doing it by hand. The fan modulation and puff feature are nice, as well.

The Tarm may be better built and the design has been around for more than a decade, but the EKO works as advertised and appears to be well made.

 

[muncybob]

......and from what I have read in other posts the Tarm require a substantial amount of money for "assembly"?? Like $4-5k more??!! I expect to pay somebody to integrate the wood boiler to my oil boiler(since I would have no clue other than what I have read here and don't trust my plumbing skills)...but another 40 to 50% of the purchase price!!??

 

[Eric Johnson]

I doubt there's much difference in installation costs, if any. Everything beyond the inlet and outlet piping is going to be the same.

 

[Paul]

SWF
Where did you find your propane tank? I have looked around and have had no luck with the propane dealers.
Also if you have the company or contact information for the EKO dealer in Markam- I would like to speak to him.
Thanks

 

[sfriedri]

SWF
Where did you find your propane tank? I have looked around and have had no luck with the propane dealers.
Also if you have the company or contact information for the EKO dealer in Markam- I would like to speak to him.
Thanks

The dealer is in Markdale (not Markham) a small town up close to Owen Sound. His name is Dan Dmytryshym and his number is 519 986 1991. He just started selling the EKO last year, and is currently offering a significant discount on these boilers.

I'll have to follow up on getting you the contact info for the propane tanks

 

[Chris B]

I have been looking every were for a propane tank. The local Superior propane dealer in town will not sell there tanks for liability issues. They stated that when they do remove a old tank from service they are scrap. If you know were I could purchase one could you please pass the information to me as well.
Thanks

 

[Stew]

I have 2 numbers for eastern Ont dealers
Ken Herman 1-800-559-1550
(no name) near Alexandria (next to Que. border 613-525-0544
I have also been questioning CSA approval for indoor installation.

 

[Medman]

Has there been any progress on certification of these boilers? Are Bio-mass or Attack boilers certified?