Decision time, Harman P43 or Lopi AGP

[canuck_22]

FYI all, the home is extremely well insualted, here in Canada it's called an R2000 home. My confusion now is some stores say no intake vent required and others say yes, and especially because my home is so air tight, any takers on that one?

Thanks

 

[DOLLARBILL]

I have a 3 bedroom log home we only use oil for domestic hot water now about a tank a year never have been warmer with our XXV shorts and Ts all winter long !

 

[SwineFlue]

FYI all, the home is extremely well insualted, here in Canada it's called an R2000 home. My confusion now is some stores say no intake vent required and others say yes, and especially because my home is so air tight, any takers on that one?

Thanks

"Required" or not, in an airtight home it is an absolute necessity. A pellet stove needs a source of "free air" to burn well.

 

[BrotherBart]

I can't imagine putting an appliance in my house without an OAK that will pump smoke and CO out of the intake if the power fails while it is burning.

 

[canuck_22]

I can't imagine putting an appliance in my house without an OAK that will pump smoke and CO out of the intake if the power fails while it is burning.

Ok I'm new with all the terminology, what is OAK?

 

[BrotherBart]

Outside Air Kit. The intake vent of which you speak.

 

[canuck_22]

Outside Air Kit. The intake vent of which you speak.

Ok thanks!

 

[BrotherBart]

When Cumberland started selling pellet stoves they actually advertised that their stoves didn't leak CO during a power failure like others stoves did. Apparently they got calls from some stove maker's lawyers because they took it out of the ads.

 

[jslinger]

How well insulated is your basement? R-values?

 

[alternativeheat]

FYI all, the home is extremely well insualted, here in Canada it's called an R2000 home. My confusion now is some stores say no intake vent required and others say yes, and especially because my home is so air tight, any takers on that one?

Thanks

Yes, in an extremely well insulated home the OAK is almost essential because you will starve the stove for air. The average pellet stove draws some 100 cubic ft of air per minute. With no outside air source it's pulling that from inside your home,if it super insulated it can be replenished putting the house in a slight vacuum situation ( like crack a window so you and the stove can breath). If it pulls it from inside your home then the air has to be replaced with cold air from outside anyway. Where do you want the cold feeding to, the inside of your home or inside your stove ?

By the same token, if you have a loose drafty house, the stove will still pull from inside your home with no OAK installed. Just the home is already rigged with the cracked open window in a different form. The result is the same, 100 CFM of air being replace by cold outside air if to not have the OAK installed.

 

[alternativeheat]

Is there not a danger of it getting dirtier when the flame is lower like that on a big model? I always hear about being careful not to oversize for the house, in my case 1100 sq ft (2200 if I include the basement)

If you are putting it in the basement then you have to include the basement sq ft. Either stove will do the job, the P61 will work less at it. Getting the heat upstairs efficiently is another matter, especially without cooking yourself out of the basement. Years ago I had a big coal burner in the basement, the basement was hovering near 85-90 most of the time, upstairs was more like 64-66 ( non insulated floors between the basement and the house, two ducts cut in the floor to let some more heat upstairs). I burned a second smaller stove upstairs and that evened it out to 70-72. The difference being that evenness ( however back in those days we weren't well insulated and the main house is 1800 sq ft to begin with, just saying).

If you want a quieter unit get an XXV. But the P series puts out and also puts out radiant heat as well, quite a bit of radiant heat ( you can't put your hand on the stove, on top or on the sides of the stove like you can on many pellet stoves). When I bought the P61 the dealer fired up a P43 for us to see and hear ( he had a 61 but it was out of pellets or something, shut down at any rate), it was impressive for such a small unit. The XXV on the other hand, you rely totally on convection blown air to do the heating. In our case, we wanted some circumferential lateral heat for sitting around in the living room and we are getting exactly that as well as the blown air. The stove is pisser, I would not call it quiet though. But this morning is 17 deg outside and the dining room is 73 one room over from the living room where the stove sites on the hearth, right where it's been since I lit this thing off. The oil burner has not been on as the thermostat is set for 69. And I do not have my OAK hooked up yet, hoping for that this weekend, we didn't have the parts on install day..

 

[canuck_22]

How well insulated is your basement? R-values?

I dont know that value, but it's finished like, framed, gyproc, on insulation with vapor barrier, typical stuff.

 

[canuck_22]

61A ordered this morning, will be delivered Wed. The project starts

Thank you all for the valuable information, I will surely be picking your brains some more along the way

 

[DOLLARBILL]

canuck your going to bed each nite with a smile on your face ! great choice !

 

[iceguy4]

FYI all, the home is extremely well insualted, here in Canada it's called an R2000 home. My confusion now is some stores say no intake vent required and others say yes, and especially because my home is so air tight, any takers on that one?

Thanks

My guess as to why a store would tell you no OAK...........1).It raises the price of their unit and install price (compared to competitors) 2)They kinda look ugly. 3) lazy... 4) a lot of loose houses will accommodate a pellet stove without OAK
If your house is tight, its a good idea to install one. If your house is real tight, your stove wont operate properly without one.
Why wouldn't you want to keep your house as close as possible to the exact same pressure as outside? wouldn't that be the point where no cold air was being sucked in,...no hot air would be pushed out?... wouldn't that be perfect? Now blessed with the knowledge that your stove is removing 100+- cfm from your house...wouldn't it be best to know where that air comes in...and control it?

Anyway you made a wise choice and I look forward to seeing pictures. It used to be enforced HEAVILY around here but it has loosened up lately "No pic;s...it didn't happen" I think its a good "rule"

 

[canuck_22]

I will have pics, me and the wife are planning the corner where it will go as we want the whole setup to look nice. I'm doing the install myself, I'm very handy, do all my own renovations. Then it will be WETT certified. It will have an OAK.

 

[canuck_22]

Going to be renting the machine to core my foundation on the weekend, now the thimble OD is 7 inches, I thought I heard that I need to core drill 8 inches, is this true? BTW I'll be using Simpsons DuraVent

Thanks

 

[P38X2]

I can't see coring it an inch bigger to be an issue. Gives you a little wiggle room.

 

[iceguy4]

Going to be renting the machine to core my foundation on the weekend, now the thimble OD is 7 inches, I thought I heard that I need to core drill 8 inches, is this true? BTW I'll be using Simpsons DuraVent

Thanks

If it were me I would measure the pipe myself...then measure the drill...No room for error as for "wiggle room" 2" would not be TOO much. easy to trim out and make it look good. Please tell me you have poured walls ...not block. Block walls don't need to be drilled.

 

[canuck_22]

If it were me I would measure the pipe myself...then measure the drill...No room for error as for "wiggle room" 2" would not be TOO much. easy to trim out and make it look good. Please tell me you have poured walls ...not block. Block walls don't need to be drilled.

Yes it is poured concrete, if I drill at 8" that would give 1/2 inch all round.

 

[iceguy4]

If it were me, I would use a hammer drill. (I have one ) I would drill the circumference with a 1/2" drill as close as possible. then I would switch to a chisel and nock out the center. Bet it would be a cheaper rental. also try to avoid the rebar. Horizontals will be just above the "ties" verticals ...only a metal detector (I have one of them too) As for drilling an 8" hole through 8" horizontally WILL separate the men from the boys. Tall order. the drill will need to be bolted to the wall. first couple of inches ...cake...Last inches ...a NIGHTMARE... I have only drilled 5" holes in slabs...5"or 6"...vertical (easy-smesy compared to horizontal) The least little bit of movement ...the side of the drill hits the concrete...if your holding it..... it will break your arms. .
Edit....I 'm just remembering a job I did with a plumber friend of mine...needed an eight inch hole in the side of a manhole..much thinner...he subbed it out. (he almost NEVER subbed out a job)

 

[canuck_22]

No no! I'm renting the real mccoy, the drill is fasten to the foundation using 1 lag bolt, flip the switch and go. $130

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4H32xnUzZLY

 

[iceguy4]

I have lots of un-fond memories of that exact drill.. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.....They have a way of making it look easy...

 

[canuck_22]

Wish me luck I'm a brave Canuck..lol

 

[iceguy4]

I'm thinking your gonna need it. The biggest drill in the video looks 6"...difficulty goes up exponentially with diameter and depth. avoid re rod Pay attention to your lag bolt (slightest movement will booger you) Be prepared to attack from both sides... That's all I got for you...